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Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:13 pm
by Xanth
There's very little that's part of this physical reality that is really required in order to grow and become a better person (consciousness).

The only important part are the interactions between consciousnesses... and the ruleset that governs those interactions.


Opinions?

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:48 am
by CFTraveler
True, but you still have to be alive to have these interactions. Hence, food, water, and shelter. I don't know about you, but I like beautiful things, such as art. Which is fine, because I make my own. But not everyone does.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:22 pm
by Majic
every issue that you consider needing improving is based in the physcial?, so without this you would be a better person...

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 6:47 pm
by CFTraveler
Majic wrote:every issue that you consider needing improving is based in the physcial?, so without this you would be a better person...
I don't understand this question, or even who is being asked.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:27 pm
by Majic
I don't understand this question, or even who is being asked.


Sorry, no one in particular but meaning that we seek to become better in the non-physical but most of the issues or the improvements we seek are to do with the physical world so
There's very little that's part of this physical reality that is really required in order to grow and become a better person (consciousness)
this quote stating that very little is required from the physical confuses me as I always thought people wanted to become a better person was relating to their actions in the physical world

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:35 pm
by Xanth
Ok, I know this is going to sound REALLY STRANGE... but bare with me. :)

Why is there very little that's physical that really matters?

Because everything that you see here is virtual. This goes for the non-physical as well. It's all just virtual.
The only "real" things here are the consciousnesses interacting... non-physical consciousnesses. Everything is only consciousness. Consciousness interacting with consciousness.
That's all that's required to grow, at least two consciousnesses interacting.

And now that I think about it, when you look at it from that perspective, you don't even need a virtual reality anymore in order to grow as a consciousness.

Now obviously, that leads to the question: So what's the point of this physical life then?
The virtual realities we experience provide the rules and limitations in order for us to figure this out.

I know, crazy, eh?

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:14 am
by Jack Reacher
Because the physical world is what connects things, its what make things really matter. Its what really exists, its so much more exotic and unique and interesting than virtual reality. Without it, this virtual world has no fuel, no value, no meaning at all. It vanishes very quickly once you social-economic position starts going down the shithole. As wonderful as the abstract world is, to me it becomes very shallow without actions to follow up on it, in fact for me it pretty much vanishes entirely. And this is coming from an introvert.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:48 am
by Szaxx
The conciousness we are is intertwined with eachothers. To obtain the singularity it appears we are all heading for, these separate conscious forms we are, must intergrate. To be in a learning position we have to be individual entities. Starting at base level, we have to learn to interact amicably. On planet Earth with its conditions for survival, this learning process is rather slow. The next stage we experience is far superior for learning without these physical requisites.
If they were a total hindrance, the physical would serve no purpose. It real, its here and we're in it. It must serve a purpose or it wouldn't exist.
I'm with Jack on this one...
Some thought required.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:04 am
by CFTraveler
Because everything that you see here is virtual. This goes for the non-physical as well. It's all just virtual.
I agree with this worldview, but I'm afraid that I don't think that the physical doesn't exist or is not real- it's just created for the purposes of experiencing each 'spark' of consciousness as 'separate'. And this experience of separation is necessary for this consciousness to interact, which is why 'it/we' created it. Maybe interaction isn't necessary, but it is obvious to me that if we created it, we must have decided that interaction was necessary, and for there to be 'interaction', the experience of separation must have been chosen by this consciousness.
The only "real" things here are the consciousnesses interacting... non-physical consciousnesses.
Non-physical consciousness can't interact with itself, because for interaction there has to be the experience of a separate 'point of view' (real or simulated), and in my opinion, the experience of separation is the definition of physicality. We think that having an 'etheric' body (or a mental body, or however you want to dissolve the physicality of the discrete point of view) is somehow nonphysical, but I believe that any experience of separation has to be defined as physical, because a point of view requires a 'piece' of space, and if there is space there is time, no matter how different than what we experience in our meat bodies, and that defines what 'physical' means, in terms of experience.
And if you're going to exist in timespace, you're going to need the means to do so. Etc. etc.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:02 pm
by Jack Reacher
Szaxx wrote:The conciousness we are is intertwined with eachothers. To obtain the singularity it appears we are all heading for, these separate conscious forms we are, must intergrate. To be in a learning position we have to be individual entities. Starting at base level, we have to learn to interact amicably. On planet Earth with its conditions for survival, this learning process is rather slow. The next stage we experience is far superior for learning without these physical requisites.
If they were a total hindrance, the physical would serve no purpose. It real, its here and we're in it. It must serve a purpose or it wouldn't exist.
I'm with Jack on this one...
Some thought required.


You are sort of with me on this one. Yeah this learning process you speak of on Earth is slow, but it is zilch in the non physical. Why you would want to approach a singularity that is nothingness is beyond me, you may as well slit your throat right now, you will get the same result. No one is keeping score except for those here on Earth.

Also, you say it must serce a purpose or it wouldn't exist. Thats a bit of a bold claim, why can't it exist without a purpose? Whats stopping this from happening in principle?

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:34 pm
by Majic
Also, you say it must serve a purpose or it wouldn't exist. Thats a bit of a bold claim, why can't it exist without a purpose? Whats stopping this from happening in principle?


I agree with this and say that life has no purpose as it is a gift so make the most of it and I dont seek any correlation in the non-physical but for now the only way I know to explore and make it real or most of it anyway is to use physical reality as a basic model until I can find another way to get around

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:39 am
by Szaxx
Mixed messages, don't we love the limits of text.
The singularity is the universal oneness, the state of pure conciousness, the ' we are all one'.
You may have experienced this in your travels. Its unconditional love and light with no body or form.
Anything that serves no purpose in the physical is disposed of or doesn't exist. We exist and must have a purpose, it may or may not be apparent but why are we here?
Our bodies are a tool and once worn out they get disposed of naturally. Tools have purpose, why are we here?
A 'look at the bigger picture' mindset may help answer these questions.
I can't answer 'why are we here' but understand there must be a purpose or we simply wouldn't be.
You can learn far more when non physical and at least 5 times faster. Its getting the desire and avoiding the distractions. Many meditate to slove issues. Others ask questions and get answers in the NP. It's all learning.
I'll read later when more thinking time is available.

Trying to avoid misrepresentation and chaos. Lol

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:46 am
by Jack Reacher
Thats what im saying though, I don't really believe in an all encompassing consciousness that you suggest exists. The only singularity of that sense is 0, null. What you are suggesting is just pure babble.

I still see no reason why we must have a purpose in order to exist. Even without love, life goes on, and even without life, the Earth keeps spinning, and even with the Earth gone, the universe keeps rolling. Consciousness itself is just a piece of the big picture, the main picture, which really is inorganic random noise that is indifferent to us completely. Life is fragile, rare, and isnt going to be around much longer. Enjoy it while you can, because once your "purpose" is over and you are gone from the physical world, thats pretty much it for you.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:54 am
by Szaxx
"Enjoy it while you can", verb enjoy, to have pleasure.
This is a purpose. To be able to enjoy it means it has to be. There is a difference between living a life and just existing.
I've pondered the reasons on why are we here in my late teens and early twenties, thirty years later and still non the wiser.
I've always known two states of being from birth, they are the physical and the 'astral' to give it a label. One for every day the other if wanting to see or know something.. Both states require conciousness. Its the only common denominator between these states of mind.
I think therefore I am. It's along those lines of thought that purpose exists. We could have simply evolved as an autonomous unit with no sense of self at all, devoid of conciousness. The fact we didn't must have purpose or some underlying reason. It's probably well outside our understanding but the direction of travel seems to be in this direction. The more intelligent the life forms are on earth, the higher in the food chain they are generally. Its a purpose.
Take some time and think what would there be if nothing at all existed. No sun, moon, galaxy, no space at all just nothing in the vastness we know of. It would drive you crazy. We exist, but why?

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:30 pm
by Jack Reacher
I don't really see what you are getting it, seems to be just one long ramble. What exactly is your point, that you are sure there is a purpose for life? When I said enjoy it while you can that is simply a subjective meaning/purpose that we can give ourselves. However what I am saying is that it isn't necessary. What I am asking you is, why MUST life have a purpose in order to exist? Why can't a bunch of chemicals randomly create us and randomly create our consciousness?

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:49 pm
by Szaxx
We are a collection of chemicals in effect but so is everything thats physical. Conciousness appears to be an energetic form. It appears to exist outside of the body meaning no chemical mix could produce it.
Im unsure on what you are saying.
If we assume the physical doesnt exist, this removes the chemical soup of everything. What would life/existance be?
There's a myriad of energetic possibilities in mind at the moment, that support the proposition of the physical being unnecessary.
I may have to read this whole topic again. It's easy to miss a valid point and your determination deserves merit.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:07 pm
by Jack Reacher
Szaxx wrote:We are a collection of chemicals in effect but so is everything thats physical. Conciousness appears to be an energetic form. It appears to exist outside of the body meaning no chemical mix could produce it.
Im unsure on what you are saying.
If we assume the physical doesnt exist, this removes the chemical soup of everything. What would life/existance be?
There's a myriad of energetic possibilities in mind at the moment, that support the proposition of the physical being unnecessary.
I may have to read this whole topic again. It's easy to miss a valid point and your determination deserves merit.


All I am saying is why is a purpose a requirement for life to exist? Why is it impossible for life to simply be, without reason or intention.

Consciousness as an energetic form, energy is physical as well you know right? Non physical is stuff like ideas, intangible things. Consciousness existing outside of the body is simply your speculation, I don't understand why you see that no chemical mix can produce it, it seems to have done a fairly good job. People with brain damage seem to have radically different states of consciousness that is easily apparent, such as huge personality and mood disorders. And this damage just seems to happen from random physical events beyond anyones control. The only point I am making, is why is purpose a requirement for life?

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:10 pm
by Majic
I think along the same lines as Jack and think the drive for purpose is a fault in out makeup, as far as we know we might just be one big organic mistake with a lot of wiring issues. Something I think about a lot is the fact that every experience that we conjure up in our dreamlives happens in a living body not a dead one. So a NDE is a near death experience not a DE or dead experience and no matter what I have not had anyone describe a dead experience only near death.
I am open minded but it seems a relentless pursuit of something beyond death is a lost cause and the effort could be better spent in enjoying living with some interesting experiences in altered states whatever and wherever they may be. Life is a gift of a curse and its up to each of us to make our own worlds and seek whatever we think we need or want.

We could also be developing as a species and what we are starting to explore in NPR is the start of something new and if so I don't want that blocked by digging around in a past that I feel even if it did exist is not much use to me, I dont want to go back like I dont seek to go back in daily life but to move on and enjoy the body and mind that I have now.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:56 pm
by Xanth
Yes, I really must apologize... for what I was wanting to say in my initial post REALLY didn't come across properly and I don't think I have the correct words in the proper order to convey the idea and concept I I have in mind.

Re: Very Little That's Physical...

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:00 pm
by Majic
LOL - dont apologize as its a good thread