Seeing Through Your Eyelids

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Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby Xanth » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:51 am

I know that a lot of people here have experienced this before. You're trying to Project consciously or Meditating and all of a sudden, you know full well that your eyes are shut tight, yet you're able to see your surroundings just fine!

I've experienced this many times while meditating at home sitting in my living room and I'm able to see my surroundings looking exactly as they are. So what is this? Was I *REALLY* seeing my living room? I could see my tv... the tv stand... the wall... the dog beds... they were all there.

Well, it wasn't until I started doing this on the train going into work each morning that I believe I have a theory. I try meditating on train each morning, the end result is that as the train pulls into Toronto, I'm usually pretty relaxed. I sit there for a bit longer waiting for everyone to leave so that there is room for me to leave as well... and as I'm sitting there I simply continue my meditation. What I experience, usually on most days is the whole "seeing through my eyelids" thing, only what I see isn't a direct reflection of what is actually going on around me. It's not even always from the same perspective of where I'm sitting. I've seen my fiance get up and walk away... I've seen people who are sitting in front of me get up and leave (not always the same people as are actually there too!)... then upon opening my eyes physically, I see that these people are still sitting there.

My theory is that what we're "seeing" when we see through our eyelids IS NOT actually physical reality at all... you're seeing non-physically, and it's mixed very highly with what you believe is around you at the time.

Thoughts? Comments?
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Seeing Through Your Eyelids

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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby Majic » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:49 pm

This is the basis and the flaw in thinking we are out of body in a lot of experiences. I think more correctly we are in our mind not out of body. It seems that the last set of visual information is the base for the start of the experience you are describing and with eyes shut tight we create this in our mind and can observe, interact depending on how deeply we phase. I have had a few visuals lately that I would class as remote viewing as they appear to be a sequence of events that roll on like a DVD but are not related to where I am or any stimulation that I am aware of. The only problem is that I am not sure that I believe in remote viewing so need to work on this one a bit more.

I think you are have some very relaxing moments supported by a daydream or near lucid event. It would be a great way to start each day
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby wstein » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:34 pm

FYI: known as 'astral sight'
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby Methiculous » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:21 am

I was looking at old posts of mine from The World of Lucid Dreaming forum and one of them was about something I dubbed, 'Translucent Eyelids' for lack of a better word. (That was back in May 2012)
I know exactly what you're talking about and have even closed my eyes tight just to make sure they were actually closed and I could feel that they were.

For me it happens on a rare occasion by accident in the night during a period of sleep. I have even gotten up during one of these episodes and although the image was vague, I walked around for a bit and the dream became more clear and started a lucid dream that way.

I've never done it during the day in a public place though.

Here's some food for thought.
Humans, and monkeys too, hold places and objects in our minds. We can picture things even if we can't see them. A baby thinks a ball disappears when a blanket covers it, but as we mature and the brain develops, we wise up. In the right frame of mind, those images in our minds can be very vivid, and especially if you can hear it. Our sense of hearing is three dimensional too just like visual depth perception. We can tell if a noise is far away or close by it's volume even with eyes closed.

This also relates to false awakenings and OBEs. The only difference between the two, I have noticed, is whether I'm lucid or not. I have sometimes been in bed trying to sleep and then realized I was dreaming (just like a false awakening, but in bed trying to sleep again). After I realized, I got up and walked around lucid dreaming in my own house. On rare occasions I look back and see a body in bed, but seldom do that. If that's not a false awakening turned out of body experience then I don't know what is. But in each, we know our surroundings and where we slept, so the environment we create in our minds can be a spitting image of reality. However, a few things will be different as the brain creates people and objects based on our subconscious emotions, and memories.

Emotions and memories are linked. Have you noticed how strong emotions create solid memories? And a vivid memory of a past event can stimulate emotion? And they are the driving force of dreams as the Amygdala and Hippocampus (emotion and memory centers of the brain) become active during dreams. So if you're in the right frame of mind, (doesn't have to be in a dream), you can still picture your surrounding and see them, but they will start to take a life of their own due to the creativity of our subconsciousness.

Still feeling the eyes closed is because we are aware of our physical bodies as we see the dream images.

After thinking out loud, and eating some of my food for thought, I think I have a theory:
What Xanth described on the train sounds like a very vivid day dream created by the mental picture of his surroundings stored in his mind, and fueled by external noises, and subconscious whim. Without REM muscle atonia, the eyes can still be felt, so it feels like looking through eyelids.
I close my eyes and see what I can see, whatever it may be.
It could be the sea, or I could see a bee.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter to me. Just let it be!
(written by a great poet after a dream... ME!)
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby Xanth » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:46 pm

Methiculous wrote:What Xanth described on the train sounds like a very vivid day dream created by the mental picture of his surroundings stored in his mind, and fueled by external noises, and subconscious whim. Without REM muscle atonia, the eyes can still be felt, so it feels like looking through eyelids.

The problem with that concept is that it still assumes what a dream is... you're still trying to separate "here" and "there". I don't see any such separation.
To me, this physical reality is as much a "dream" as any dream you have while sleeping.

Consider that concept for a second in relation to what you just said. :)
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby Methiculous » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:07 pm

I've been trying to come up with something to truly define the difference between a dreaming state of consciousness and a waking one.

But I cannot. The line is so blurry and it seems to overlap.

I was going to get scientific and point out that the Amygdala and Hippocampus are extremely active during dreams. (Emotion and memory respectively). I've been doing some research lately and trying to define a dream objectively, but when you think about it, the waking physical world is seen and experienced through the lens of emotion and memory too! It's fabricated too for the observer. (Or perhaps neither and both are 'data streams' as Campbell would call it). We are not logical or objective anytime, anywhere! It never gets turned off completely. Life and reality for us is an illusion, based on feelings, intuition and believed concepts. Even great scientists should realize that.

I wonder what two objective people would say about reality and dream. What would Spock and Data say about it? ( :ugeek: <-- Uber Trekkie Geek) (Data had a lucid dream once in The Next Generation! It was an interesting episode.....)

I have to resort to science fiction, because I can't truly say anyone in this world, no matter how smart they appear to be is truly objective and infallible. Even Einstein was a human with desires and a sense of humor. There is no logic in humor. Spock and Data would never get a joke and don't know what it is like to have human consciousness with all its ups and downs and comprehend this thing called, 'emotion' we all deal with. But perhaps emotion is what makes us more aware and superior in some ways....... Kirk and Bones would say so.... :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :lol:

(To any Trekkies... Technically, yes, I know Vulcans have emotions, but they suppress them and feel they are inferior, Data on the other hand was a proverbial Pinocchio).
I close my eyes and see what I can see, whatever it may be.
It could be the sea, or I could see a bee.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter to me. Just let it be!
(written by a great poet after a dream... ME!)
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby wstein » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:14 pm

Methiculous wrote:I've been trying to come up with something to truly define the difference between a dreaming state of consciousness and a waking one.
There may indeed be no difference. 'Waking' may just be the dream you have most.

The difference I would site is that in dreaming the source of 'everything' is from with in the same being that is experiencing it. Waking reality is a co-creation of many beings. This may not be a real difference as its is possible to have joint dreaming. So it may turn out that the difference is only in how many beings are participating (one up to a a small few or billions)
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby Methiculous » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:29 pm

I watched the first 30 minutes of Tom Campbell's lecture that Xanth provided in the Destynee's Plan section. I like the cut of his jib.

My only contention is whether dreams and visions and all things 'Non-Physical' occurs solely in the mind or not. (I actually don't know).

Although I have never had a verified remote viewing from the past present of future, there are so many accounts and documented cases, that I'm starting to think it may be a reality. There's too many cases to consider everyone to be a liar and there must be an element of truth to it.

Perhaps we have such a powerful mind we can extrapolate the past and future from what we know now. Or do we actually experience real 'data streams' in the non-physical and just perceive them in a different, non logical, and more conceptual way than how we perceive what we call "waking consciousness"? (I had to put that in quotes, because this is all hard to define and make concrete.)

And don't get me started on the illusion of being in a 'body'. We truly are a consciousness that only has a sense of one out of convenience and survival to hunt. Why do I feel like I am in a body, behind my eyes? I don't have to be and am starting to open up to the idea of placing myself anywhere. I did that a few times when I had a bad fever, and when I dabbled in psychedelic drugs long ago. Tom Campbell mentioned that in his lecture, and how some people can get a taste of 'it' without practice, but I still don't know what happened and if it was just a trip in my mind or not. (I'll go into detail in another topic or here if someone wants to pry). But precognition and out of body are words that come to mind.
I close my eyes and see what I can see, whatever it may be.
It could be the sea, or I could see a bee.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter to me. Just let it be!
(written by a great poet after a dream... ME!)
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby Szaxx » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:24 am

@ Methiculous,
I'll give you a pointer that's related to 'in your mind or not'.
Take a look at the last 3 posts. Check the dates and log them mentally.
The meteor and aircraft one in particular. It was a weak experience but the 'feel' was there. Watch the video and see how the interpretation almost matches.
The one thing that stands out is the fact I knew it was going to be video'd.
This fact was 100% clear in the experience.
What do you think?
Doh, link added. :roll:
reference-material-t92-60.html
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Re: Seeing Through Your Eyelids

Postby phaser24 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:18 am

I've experienced seeing through my eyelids twice, both times I was raising energy (New Energy Ways). When I mentioned this to my brother who spends 8 to 10 hours daily practicing TaiChi; he nonchalantly said "oh yea" that often when sparing he closed his eyes because it heightened all his other senses and he said he could see through his closed eyelids. So I kind of thought that this is more related to energy rather than meditation although I suppose both could be thought of as a form of meditation.
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