My Realization

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My Realization

Postby Xanth » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:13 pm

So I’ve come to a rather perplexing conclusion about my Projection practices over the past several months.

I’ve been listening a lot to spiritual teachers such as Adyashanti, and even the less “spiritually-inclined” such as Tom Campbell lately… and this is what triggered this particular realization. I feel I’ve had some significant transformations over just these last couple weeks that lead me in this direction.

I’ve found that the more I’ve been delving into my spiritual side… the more I’ve been growing… an the less active I am in actively practicing astral projection.

For example, I really doesn’t bother me if I project anymore, it’s simply phased out as a desire within myself. I tried practicing this morning because I had the day off work, and I found myself not really caring if I projected or not. Not because I was lazy or anything, but because I genuinely had no “want”… that’s not to say I don’t project anymore, I have enough spontaneous projections that happen to me now, they almost seem to be happening on their own accord now and with greater frequency too.

Is anyone else finding this? As you experience the non-physical more and more, your attention is drawn more and more to the physical? Everyone goes through a cycle from time to time where they lose interest in projection and then one day pick it up again… this isn’t it. I’m well versed in that particular cycle, as I’ve gone through it many times prior. This is more a fundamental shift in being *me… or more appropriately, it’s a fundamental shift in my *being*.

That’s not to say I’m not going to continue sharing my thoughts and ideas here on my website or anything crazy like that… hehe Although, I think my posting might “open up” a bit to take on more of a spiritual turn and I guess I’ll finally able to fully utilize my website name: Unlimited Boundaries. I knew I chose it for a reason… because it was quite limiting only talking about Astral Projection. LOL

EDIT: Since I've been reading Fred Aardema's book "Explorations in Consciousness", I've decided to continue my projecting practices a bit more. Balance is really needed. :)

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/ ... alization/
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My Realization

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Re: My Realization

Postby astralzombie » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:19 pm

I can't imagine that I will ever become indifferent to the idea of projecting but I can understand where are you are coming from. You have utilized many different methods to find your "center", be it through martial arts, meditation (w/o the goal of projecting), and many other ways that I probably can't imagine.

After 12 years of having OOBE's, I have only now tried to really find out who I am and why. I imagine that you are in a great place within. :)

I have recently started to read some books concerning life, death, OOBE, and so on. I think I will stop, for awhile anyway. The reason being is that I have already reached some of the same conclusions only I lack the ability to really flesh it out and expand my ideas on paper. I want to make sure that most of my "revelations" are really my own, then I can read and compare. This in a way can be a validation of sorts. Can you imagine how cool it would feel to reach some profound conclusions then later learn that some of the greatest minds and philosophers have reached the same as well? 8-)
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Re: My Realization

Postby Xanth » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:44 pm

astralzombie wrote:I imagine that you are in a great place within. :)

It seems to be a crapshoot some days. LoL

I have recently started to read some books concerning life, death, OOBE, and so on. I think I will stop, for awhile anyway. The reason being is that I have already reached some of the same conclusions only I lack the ability to really flesh it out and expand my ideas on paper. I want to make sure that most of my "revelations" are really my own, then I can read and compare. This in a way can be a validation of sorts. Can you imagine how cool it would feel to reach some profound conclusions then later learn that some of the greatest minds and philosophers have reached the same as well? 8-)

I've found some interesting things...
Take two people: Adyashanti, a spiritual teacher... and Tom Campbell, a physics scientist. On the outside, and through their vocabulary they use, I would consider them on two polarizing spectrums, yet when you really listen to what each of them say... they both end up saying the exact same things, just in their own way. It's uncanny really...
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Re: My Realization

Postby ChopstickFox » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:09 am

Maybe I'm just lazy. I certainly want to project, but at the same time I've always been really chill of what happens happens. A lot of that could really be because I can't do anything on purpose yet. I don't like the word can't, but I used it anyways. Who knows how I'd react if I could suddenly project on command. Maybe I'd abuse it? I'd like to think not, but things happen for a reason... It changes from time to time how I feel about it, but for the most part I'm like "whatever". Spontaneous, lucid, or not, I cherish the experiences I get! :) I'm right where I need to be!

I guess I'm kind of going the opposite direction right now. I have spent a lot of time discovering things internally. Not that I really know any better at the end of the day, haha! If we are talking about the non physical in general in accordance with the development of spirituality, I do shift back and forth between phases. Sometimes I will go through a period where I am very active non physically then other times it will fade to the background. But it will trigger back. I think its the natural way of things. And in another way, it keeps it nice and fresh. Like new surprises. Exciting! Especially coming across a new idea. New possibilities. Love it.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Xanth » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:54 am

ChopstickFox wrote:Maybe I'm just lazy. I certainly want to project, but at the same time I've always been really chill of what happens happens. A lot of that could really be because I can't do anything on purpose yet. I don't like the word can't, but I used it anyways. Who knows how I'd react if I could suddenly project on command. Maybe I'd abuse it? I'd like to think not, but things happen for a reason... It changes from time to time how I feel about it, but for the most part I'm like "whatever". Spontaneous, lucid, or not, I cherish the experiences I get! :) I'm right where I need to be!

That's the whole point of increasing the quality of your consciousness. The more you increase that (by becoming closer to Love), things like "abusing" the system will come less and less in mind.

I guess I'm kind of going the opposite direction right now. I have spent a lot of time discovering things internally. Not that I really know any better at the end of the day, haha! If we are talking about the non physical in general in accordance with the development of spirituality, I do shift back and forth between phases. Sometimes I will go through a period where I am very active non physically then other times it will fade to the background. But it will trigger back. I think its the natural way of things. And in another way, it keeps it nice and fresh. Like new surprises. Exciting! Especially coming across a new idea. New possibilities. Love it.

I know what you mean, for the last year or so I've been very much more on a spiritual journey...
Right now, I'm reading Fred's book "Explorations in Consciousness", and it's getting me riled up to practice projection a bit more. LoL
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Re: My Realization

Postby CFTraveler » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:37 pm

I'm always the opposite of everyone I know- I had my 'spiritual awakening' (or whatever you want to call it, I don't like the 'e' word) first, and the projection thing just happened, and I never even considered them to be connected, because one was a realization, while the other one was just something I do, like everything else.
So for the longest time I used to be surprised at the reaction people have to expanded-awareness experiences, all the emotion it evokes in them. So I do it when I feel like seeing someone out of the physical, or when I get bored.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Jack Reacher » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:02 pm

I had a similar realisation when it came to lucid dreaming, and in a way, weed as well now that I think of it.

I basically saw everything I could do during a dream, everything I could feel and achieve, everything I could create, everything to do with the experience, and I saw it as a small space, a small circle, in the vast openness that is our universe. There is simply more to life, I would rather wake up early in the morning so I can get on with my day. Essentially I see lucid dreaming as simply playing, you can't really grow from it as its all internal to me. Same went for weed, everything I could get out of it just seemed small in comparison to whats out there in waking life. I felt the need to go and experiment and inerac with the world, with different people and places, ideas and such because it seemed to make me grow more spiritually than lying in my bed ever could.

Having said that I am interested in getting back into it from such a long break because I am interested to see what kind of experiences I could have from projecting, but only because it simply sounds like fun, im not looking to really learn or grow from it, I just see it as a creative exercise, exploiting a part of our biology really.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Methiculous » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:12 pm

astralzombie wrote:I want to make sure that most of my "revelations" are really my own, then I can read and compare. This in a way can be a validation of sorts. Can you imagine how cool it would feel to reach some profound conclusions then later learn that some of the greatest minds and philosophers have reached the same as well?


I'm the same way. I actually don't read any books about this subject and just form my own thoughts about it. I'm still not sure if projection and astral planing are the same as what I experience and call lucid dreaming, but I never learned how and it just happens. And if any of my 'profound conclusions are shared by great minds', well then I knew it was my own idea first and only validated by them. (But how great can their minds be if they are reaching the same conclusions as little old me!? ;) )
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It could be the sea, or I could see a bee.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter to me. Just let it be!
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Re: My Realization

Postby Jack Reacher » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:42 pm

I used to be very similar when I was in my late teenage years, I spent a lot of time thinking about psychology, social norms, I came up with a multiverse theory before reading about it, and afer long discussions with mates we also came up with a very similar idea for determinsim. My arguement was that if we went back in time 10 minutes back and watched outselves strictly from an observer point of view, like a ghost that has no influence at all on anything, then for those 10 minutes we would see the exact same events play out exacly the same way, right up to me going back in time. This small idea kinda showed to me that we dont ever really have a say in anything, some entity in the future 10 minutes from now could be watching us play out our movements exactly as he had seen before and know we can do nothing to change it.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Bedeekin » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:55 pm

Jack Reacher wrote:I used to be very similar when I was in my late teenage years, I spent a lot of time thinking about psychology, social norms, I came up with a multiverse theory before reading about it, and afer long discussions with mates we also came up with a very similar idea for determinsim. My arguement was that if we went back in time 10 minutes back and watched outselves strictly from an observer point of view, like a ghost that has no influence at all on anything, then for those 10 minutes we would see the exact same events play out exacly the same way, right up to me going back in time. This small idea kinda showed to me that we dont ever really have a say in anything, some entity in the future 10 minutes from now could be watching us play out our movements exactly as he had seen before and know we can do nothing to change it.


So take this into your internal consciousness side. Are all your thoughts predetermined?

Like tonight if you have a LD... will that specific lucidity have been predetermined?
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Re: My Realization

Postby Jack Reacher » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:07 am

Pretty much. How couldn't it? In fact this raises a very interesting question about dream control, we say we have total control over our dream, and in some ways we do, if you had enough experience you could mold the dream into any experience you want. But what caused you to want it to be that way, what caused you to choose the dream to be that way? It was other causal factors of the past, say you choose to model your dream after your old high school, what made you want to do that? When you start looking into that, you realise you have very little control over anything at all.

Another way I used to look at it, was that our physical body is made entirely of physical parts (no shit) which can be reduced to atoms. Now I understand those atoms can be reduced to parts that have non-deterministic properties, but they dont really change the path of the atom at all.
So basically if we accept that our body is made of physical parts, and if each one of those parts is bound by a physical law that cannot be broken and is entirely influenced by other physical parts both external and internal to ourselves, then what good would a soul do? Say we do have a nonphysical side to us, even if it did have free will and we could choose our own thoguhts and dreams, how could that soul possibly interact with our body to do so? How could it break those physical laws?

It would be like what if a spirit possed a rock and he rock grew a mind. So what? It wouldnt be able to move or sense anything, basiaclly it would be exactly the same as if it didnt have a soul. It is pretty much along for the ride.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Bedeekin » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:26 am

Both models work from our different perspectives.. determinism works for you because it's what you see and understand from your 'current' perspective... free will works for me because it's what I see and understand and it's my perspective. I only gave you a 'current' status because your opinion could change. Mine can't unless you erased my memory of the last 29 years.

See... the difference is I can only see my view of the world from the perspective of having thousands of OOBEs/LDs... and I've also had many experiences that told me that we can't possibly be just meat.. and this realisation can only lead to free will as being the sole reason for existing. It's not even a belief.. it's just the truth to me. But the problem is - as with all these discussions on forums - we are the sum of our experiences and no-one can change that... only experience. I could waffle on for hours about why I said this and that or give anecdotal evidence... but it would be pointless.

I sometimes feel that determinism is a very easy way of viewing the world and is a sort of loosening of ones own responsibility for outcome.... 'ah well... maybe that wasn't meant to be'. It's a cool idea.. but ultimately flawed from a non-local consciousness point of view.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Jack Reacher » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:40 am

Yeah I used to share your same view about free will as well actually, when I started living alone and fully thinking for myself and smoking weed more, and having lots of Lucid Dreams. This view you think I currently have isn't really what I think, those analogies were just examples as to how I too also used to like to think of this stuff myself without going to external sources, these thoughts are about 2 years old for me. I also believe in free will to some degree, I don't even bother defining or labeling this kind of stuff anymore tbh I usually just go with what I feel in the present moment and focus on more important things.

However what made me stop thinking in such lofty ways wasn't just my own experiences really, but just looking at the world as a whole, looking at others experiences. It just seemed so unfair that I have been given such a great position in life to be able to dream and have these non physical experiences and thoughts, whereas so many others are born in slums, poverty, abusive households, mental illness etc etc. It just seemed so blatantly chaotic, unorganised, unbalanced and random that I failed to see how any kind of cosmic order above us could really exist. I stared really believing, for no real reason at all tbh but just by intuition, that this universe is the only thing that exists, that life is extremely rare and once its gone, its gone, and once your own life is gone, thats it, game over, you dont live on in anything, you never feel or experience anything again. Afer thinking like that for a while, I just find it too hard to go back to this lofty nonphysical stuff, it just doesn't really fit in anymore for me. But who knows maybe il change, but I can't see myself basing my life around this kind of stuff again.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Bedeekin » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:00 am

So we don't differ.. I just have my head firmly in the clouds and you are slightly disillusioned. :D

Funny thing is... I don't really consider myself 'spiritual'. I'm between spiritualism and a sort of pseudo materialism. I have been up and down over the years but the experiences that really push me, like precognition, remote viewing with confirmation and certain experiments I have done within the nonphysical, don't allow me to fall into the 'it's all meat' thought system no matter how utterly crap the world can be to people. It seems suffering has the short end of the straw. But I see this as another part of the reason of free will... it's there for a reason... to learn from.

I don't think there is perfect order to it either. Accepting that consciousness rules doesn't mean a beautiful cosmic order exists within our local nonphysical system. I have found that It's just as flawed as this one in terms of good and bad... it seems more like an information system that this reality is derived from rather than a spiritualistic omnipresent realm. This is my view anyway. A hard drive full to the brim with cookies, glitches and corrupted files... just like this one.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Jack Reacher » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:18 am

Good read, I also must say that I have no idea how we differ really as I still don't have a proper foothold on my own beliefs yet, I wouldn't really say your head is in the clouds if your view is mainly derived from your experiences because I think emperical evidence like that is simply something that can't be ignored. I think we can all agree, as someone said so before in different words, that everything we gather in our one life is just a fragment of the ocean of information and perspective life has to offer, to build a picture from that tiny sliver is a pretty rough task.

That is one reason though that I started reading and studying more from other people though, it just gives you more insight. Unless you believe that all information and knowledge is within us then I guess you wouldn't see the point in going to external sources unless it stimulates the knowledge from within.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Bedeekin » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:09 am

Jack Reacher wrote:I wouldn't really say your head is in the clouds if your view is mainly derived from your experiences because I think emperical evidence like that is simply something that can't be ignored. I think we can all agree, as someone said so before in different words, that everything we gather in our one life is just a fragment of the ocean of information and perspective life has to offer, to build a picture from that tiny sliver is a pretty rough task.


I know.. I used that as two extremes. My head is in the clouds... but they are real clouds.. I like them and they work for me. I suppose I just want people to join me in the clouds... Don't most people want others to join their beliefs in some way. One persons ultimate truth is a belief to everyone else.

Jack Reacher wrote:
That is one reason though that I started reading and studying more from other people though, it just gives you more insight. Unless you believe that all information and knowledge is within us then I guess you wouldn't see the point in going to external sources unless it stimulates the knowledge from within.


I do believe that.. but I don't think that all information and knowledge is within just me... it's the truth and beliefs of others that widens the search but which ultimately narrows understanding into a more concise picture. So it's invaluable. Also, our understandings continually evolve and change... nothing is set in stone... or determined. oooh.... full circle.
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Re: My Realization

Postby Jack Reacher » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:01 am

Haha that reminds me when I was younger I finally understood why they call people in institutions "loopy", when I started having loopy thoughts from smoking too much.

Anyway yeah your description was a pretty good depiction of the sides we stand on anyway, I mean there is nothing really special about my side anyway its essentially crap that everyone knows anyway right? The whole point of the side of "disillusionment" is that anything that contradicts the truth (the boring nihilistic void of meaninglessness) must be false, as a contradiction to truth must be false. Its a pretty safe position to take up... but if you get stuck here it can give you intense feelings of isolation from prety much everything.

Anywho another little belief when coming out of some nihilistic rut that I somehow got myself in after leaving those clouds was that we have an anthropological property of creating our own meaning (I have no idea if that is the right terminology please correct me asap) to pretty much anything. If you can find your own meaning and happiness in your system thats great, you also feel the need to fight and protect it, thats fine to. Problems arise when in order to protect this world we create we have to convert others to it as well to avoid conflict or contradictions, and I speak in very general terms here about many types of beliefs, and these contradicions usually arise due to the fact that our worlds and beliefs we create are once again false as they were an escape from a nihilistic meaningless void (yay a circle of my own).
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Re: My Realization

Postby Shaman » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:35 am

Very interesting , guys I too am all about self actualization I also learn from Adyashanti and uncle Tom ,(ive listened to him so much hes now uncle Tom) hehe
In terms of Projection you guys know that there is no limit to shit you can do , sometimes its out of your control , sometimes you implement your intent and have YOUR goals set for when in the astral but most of all just because one can project doesn't mean that one has to go about personal spiritual growth , I have found people like playing out there desires and fantasies and basically just fuck about because well there is so much to experience , flying , communication etc etc
I myself like Xanth am all about self actualization , self discovery , self knowing , and would always have my compass pointed at personal spiritual growth , when in the Astral I give that signal and trust in the LCS and the LCS will nudge me to wear I need to go , and I think that when one has successfully unblocked all that conditioning and indoctrination's that prevent one from projecting , a balance is needed between living and dying every moment and sometimes concentrating on projecting can be a waste of energy , because energy is so usefull in waking reality , The right balance brings the right results the lcs will provide great spontaneous oobe after you stop trying because it knows thats what you want ,
Like uncle tom says , see were the chips fall
or something like that , I hope I spate that out right
Basically projection & spiritual growth go hand in hand when the desire and intent is in alignment :ugeek:
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Re: My Realization

Postby astralzombie » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:43 am

All belief systems are traps. Even believing that you don't have one is, as well. I spent over 30 years blindly devoted to one thinking it was beautiful and all encompassing. All the while shoving down the inconsistencies and contradictions that mattered to me but others told me that they shouldn't. Even when all was good and felt right, I was just delusional.

Like Jack, I struggled with all the pain and suffering that existed when I believed that there was some all knowing and all inclusive loving God. If all we really get is one shot at getting this right, just one chance to make the right choices and come to the correct realizations, then free will doesn't really jive to me as the reason for all the corruption and suffering.

On the other hand, if we get countless chances to learn some hard lessons and get this right, then I can see how free will would match perfectly. So that's how I see it now because it's what makes sense to me from what I have seen and experienced in the NPR. I'm aware of the fact that we humans can convince ourselves of anything just to be comfy but it took a lot of hard work and personal deconstruction to build myself back up and to be the person I am today. None of it is based on delusions this time around. And the funny thing is, mainstream culture says I couldn't be any nuttier for having my current beliefs today if I was a squirrel's turd. :lol:
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Re: My Realization

Postby Xanth » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:56 am

CFTraveler wrote:I'm always the opposite of everyone I know- I had my 'spiritual awakening' (or whatever you want to call it, I don't like the 'e' word) first, and the projection thing just happened, and I never even considered them to be connected, because one was a realization, while the other one was just something I do, like everything else.
So for the longest time I used to be surprised at the reaction people have to expanded-awareness experiences, all the emotion it evokes in them. So I do it when I feel like seeing someone out of the physical, or when I get bored.

That would be how I came about to all this really.

I started with meditation, which then lead to what most people would call a Kundalini Rising... after which I began to study more and more about meditation, which then brought me to astral projection.

Shaman wrote:I myself like Xanth am all about self actualization , self discovery , self knowing , and would always have my compass pointed at personal spiritual growth , when in the Astral I give that signal and trust in the LCS and the LCS will nudge me to wear I need to go , and I think that when one has successfully unblocked all that conditioning and indoctrination's that prevent one from projecting , a balance is needed between living and dying every moment and sometimes concentrating on projecting can be a waste of energy , because energy is so usefull in waking reality , The right balance brings the right results the lcs will provide great spontaneous oobe after you stop trying because it knows thats what you want ,
Like uncle tom says , see were the chips fall
or something like that , I hope I spate that out right
Basically projection & spiritual growth go hand in hand when the desire and intent is in alignment :ugeek:

And that's a major factor in why I believe I don't (and have never) experienced anything negative that everyone else keeps talking about... stuff like being attacked by entities and such.

astralzombie wrote:All belief systems are traps. Even believing that you don't have one is, as well. I spent over 30 years blindly devoted to one thinking it was beautiful and all encompassing. All the while shoving down the inconsistencies and contradictions that mattered to me but others told me that they shouldn't. Even when all was good and felt right, I was just delusional.

Like Jack, I struggled with all the pain and suffering that existed when I believed that there was some all knowing and all inclusive loving God. If all we really get is one shot at getting this right, just one chance to make the right choices and come to the correct realizations, then free will doesn't really jive to me as the reason for all the corruption and suffering.

On the other hand, if we get countless chances to learn some hard lessons and get this right, then I can see how free will would match perfectly. So that's how I see it now because it's what makes sense to me from what I have seen and experienced in the NPR. I'm aware of the fact that we humans can convince ourselves of anything just to be comfy but it took a lot of hard work and personal deconstruction to build myself back up and to be the person I am today. None of it is based on delusions this time around. And the funny thing is, mainstream culture says I couldn't be any nuttier for having my current beliefs today if I was a squirrel's turd. :lol:

That really is the kicker to all this, isn't it?

"Belief", in any form, really doesn't help you one bit. As long as it's not a full 100% belief in something, I guess... for once you completely believe in something, it has then become your answer and you've then given up searching.

It's okay to believe, just don't believe to the exclusion of all other possibilities.

Base your opinions on your direct experience, because direct experience trumps everything. If someone tells you that you can't pull another person out of their body, they tell you it's impossible... yet you've done it, you've experienced doing it... who exactly are they to invalidate your direct experience? This is why I'm quite open to "most" things... I do have my direct experiences and some of those run directly contrary to other people, and I'm fine with that. The problem is that those other people general aren't fine with that. LOL

I'm good with others having experiences that go contrary to my own. That's the spice of life afterall... I go to forums simply to share what I've learned through my experiences, and I hope others do too. :)
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Xanth
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