Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Any questions you have regarding any of the following experiences: Astral Projections, Out of Body Experiences, Real Time Zone Projections, Phasing, Projection, Lucid Dreaming, Sleep Paralysis, etc... ask them here.

Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Szaxx » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:57 pm

I've noticed for a very long time that the personality we possess is different while non physical. It seems to reflect the knowledge gained overall from our experiences.
As most beginners think 'physical' they retain their persona and attempt to judge their initial experiences this way too.
Thoughts?
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Majic » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:22 pm

Not sure I totally agree with this one as both personalities have changed over the years. I used to be quite violent in LD but that reflected dealing with nightmares and induced the lucid state when I was young but not Its to be like that now and I feel a sense of peace in both the lucid state and in waking life. No lack of aggression if required in either place but a calmer person and a more curious person as well.
I would say that both personalities are aligned and in harmony these days
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Xanth » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:59 pm

Majic wrote:Not sure I totally agree with this one as both personalities have changed over the years. I used to be quite violent in LD but that reflected dealing with nightmares and induced the lucid state when I was young but not Its to be like that now and I feel a sense of peace in both the lucid state and in waking life. No lack of aggression if required in either place but a calmer person and a more curious person as well.
I would say that both personalities are aligned and in harmony these days

And I think that's quite telling of the spiritual progress you've made for yourself.
I can identify with that because it's exactly what has happened to me over the course of my life.

I think our non-physical dream awareness experiences (when you're non-physical but don't realize you are) are indicative of our consciousness at the "being" level, instead of the "intellectual" level where we operate mostly while consciously aware. So the shift from violent dreams to non-violent dreams would indicate a positive spiritual progression. :)
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Szaxx » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:38 pm

I also had nightmares in my early days too. The fastest learning route by far.
I was thinking deeper. There's more than a subtle difference between the physical and the NP.
Wherever you find yourself the you thats your awareness has different memories and knowledge that don't apply to this physical existance. Be it in a LD or AP.
Silly things like stars in the sky for example. Totally different to ours but you still recognize them. How you react instantly to someone jumping off a high place because they've had enough. This is the difference Im referring to. Without flying or anything unnatural to where you are, your actions are different to those that would happen in the same situation whilst physical.
The main difference is fear. I for one have far more fear in this physical existance in comparison to the NP.
As its our primary locale, we have a single existance within its rules. Go outside this and its automatic termination.
So effectively as in a video game, here we have one life and no coins left. Mess up then its game over.
In the NP our pockets are full but the play is much harder, although there's many lifes available, our time is limited by the certain fail to last at it. Another coin, another game.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Methiculous » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:13 pm

Lionheart,

There is a big misconception about lucid dreaming that beginners have and they think it is all fun and games. But it isn't. Is it? Sometimes they go off kilter and became dark and disturbing. And I value my non-lucid dreams, because quite frankly I don't want to be lucid in EVERY dream I have, I think it would drive me a little batty. I agree, "Be careful what you wish for." Take it all in stride. And value non-lucid dreaming too because it is the ultimate respite from reality. We need a break from ourselves sometimes and although illogical, dreams keep us sane. Go figure!

If you spend all day awake and also wake in your dreams and then feel a need to write them all down.... when do you ever truly rest?!

I know what it is like to get the 'switch' turned on and never be able to turn it off at times. I am thankful I have non-lucid dreams most of the time because without them we will never get true rest. I wish you and everyone sweet dreams! It's important to take a break from thinking!
I close my eyes and see what I can see, whatever it may be.
It could be the sea, or I could see a bee.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter to me. Just let it be!
(written by a great poet after a dream... ME!)
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Xanth » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:43 pm

There actually is a problem that I see a lot of beginners fall prey to...
You touch upon it slightly in your above post, Michael. It's that they end up valuing their non-physical experiences (dream, lucid or otherwise) much more than their physical existence!!

They want to project so badly... there are many reasons why, some want spiritual growth, some want to just have fun, some want to talk to a guide for whatever reason... but what they *ALL* miss is that they're experiencing this physical reality for a reason and you can make the most gains in spiritual growth simply by valuing THIS experience.

I'm always amazed when I hear people talking about wanting to grow spiritually and yet they talk like learning Astral Projection is the ONLY way to go about doing it. THEN, when you tell them that all they really need to do is to learn to interact with people from a position of Love... they look at you like you're a nut job. "But I want to learn to Project..." they say. It's like putting the horse before the cart! Learn to Love people and projection will happen naturally from that state of consciousness.

I see this quite often in many AP groups, most notably the Astral Projectors facebook group.
I guess in the end it's a lesson that everyone has to learn on their own and at their own speed.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Jettins » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:12 am

Xanth wrote:to grow spiritually... all they really need to do is to learn to interact with people from a position of Love..

It would depend on what stage of their spiritual growth the person is on. Using "love" is not the only way to evolve spiritually that's for sure. All you need to do to know about that is to read up on what different cultures have done for centuries, unless you think then as fools. If you still think everything can be broken down to "love", and maybe rightfully so, I would ask you to please share your non-physical experiences where you objectively used "love" to find solutions or increase the quality of your experiences. It would be very helpful in support to your statement. I'm sure we would all enjoy those stories. I've directed "love" energy and its helped for protection and to heal many times, I've shared some of the stories in my forum, however this "love" factor is only a small part if we take into account the complexity of our psyche and that of those around us while in the physical and in the non-physical. We can figure this one out when our dreams don't go as we would like or when we arrive into unexpected dimensions/situations.

When people say they want to learn to astral project to grow spiritually, what they really mean is that they want to learn to free themselves from the illusions/behavior that prevent them from becoming objectively aware in the non-physical states, and as a result to know who they really are. This is very understandable. When the person starts to genuinely remove from their psyche the things that they are not (by doing inner work and sometimes going through inner struggle), higher objectivity will eventually flow naturally, along with love, improved experiences or whatever else they supposed to be thinking and feeling. In my view this is why the newbies don't understand when you say "it's about love", because they haven't done this work yet. When you write "it's about love" it reminds me of the Christians when they say "all you need to do is accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior". It's no surprise to me why it's such a turn off to the newbies.

To those that are in the position to teach, it would be wise to learn how to approach individuals with different inclinations and perspectives to appeal to their sensitivities. It could require learning about the different belief systems, cultures, religions or philosophies. Sometimes you have to help them gain a freebee or two under their own terms before you can point out the important universal issues. There are many ways to go about doing this, it is what the spiritual teachings thought out history have focused on when you look closely. Or we can create our own. I apologize if I state the obvious.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Majic » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:30 pm

When people say they want to learn to astral project to grow spiritually, what they really mean is that they want to learn to free themselves from the illusions/behavior that prevent them from becoming objectively aware in the non-physical states, and as a result to know who they really are


This captures it nicely, in sport its being ripped down by intense training to some basic level and then a rebuild in a more structured way with an understanding our personal strengths aligned with goals
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Xanth » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:42 am

I was PM'd on Facebook the other day with a question from a gentleman I was discussing things with:

Yes I have read your book and see others seem to disagree with your stance that astral projection and lucid dreaming are the same thing. Here's my question, if thye are the same why bother with astral po
projections if they take so long to achieve when you could just lucid dream instead.
Me personally I lucid dream but want to learn to astral p
roject simply because I heard you get the same clarity and conciouness as real life, now I don't see the point.
Lastly I am a fairly frequent lucid dreamer but I don't particularly look foward to having lucid dreams as I have no control over them and they usually turn bad secondly I dont like the feeling of being trapped in a cartoon or dream body it really freaks me out.


My response:
Well, for each person who disagrees with me, there are a myriad of people who do. What I find most important to teach someone isn't what they're to expect when they project, but that they learn to project at all! That's my goal. To simply teach people to experience the non-physical so that they can begin to form their own opinions by first hand experience by testing the concepts and ideas which people have put forth.
This is what I've done over the last 4 or 5 years, tested the experiences I've had... that's how I've come to the conclusions I've had. I certainly don't want you to believe me, I want you to test things for yourself and come to your own conclusions.
The question isn't "why bother to project if they're all the same?"... the question is simply, "why bother to project at all?"
So onto me... if you've read my book completely, you'll know my background. I've been projecting since I was a small child (I'm 33 now). When I was young, I identified them simply as dreams where I was awake. I'd fly around mostly, because that's really what I love doing. LoL Fast forward to 4 or 5 years ago when I joined the Astral Pulse forums and I began to more heavily research not only WHAT I was experiencing, but what the nature of the experience was.
I don't really want to go much more into it, because it's really all in my book, but suffice to say I really don't care what other people say or think... I have my personal experiences, and they've been a strong catalyst.
I reject most mystical concepts and ideas about what Astral Projection, Lucid dreaming and everything is... and that's BECAUSE of my experiences. I've come up against many people who disagree with me, I shrug it off. People like Andrew Rehm are fighting me from a position of ego, and I really don't care to "discuss" with people from there.
What I'll do for you is add you to a more open minded astral projectors group here on facebook if you're not already a part of. There you'll find many more people who are VERY open minded about these experiences, but they also agree with my position.
Now, onto your "control" issue. I've found control to be a completely secondary characteristic of any projection experience... almost like *YOU* have no say over the matter and that it's entirely up to whatever reality you're experiencing in. What you can do to try is, if you don't already have it, bring forth your full waking awareness. I'll provide you with a link to my website where I talk about HOW to do this: http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/ ... rojection/ You'll see that the switch from a lucid dream to an astral projection is only a switch in perception of your awareness... you increase your awareness. Hell, you've probably had more "Astral Projections" than you even realize, but you've limited yourself to a box that someone else has told you about regarding WHAT the experience is.
Me, I've freed myself from that box.
Anyway, if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. I'm always open to helping people who are dedicate to learn.


This was in a discussion where someone was getting mad at me for stating my opinions... where ironically, they were doing the same, but because they disagreed with my opinions, they began attacking me for it. LoL Anyway, I shrug that kind of crap off now-a-days and move on, but I found it kind of humorous none-the-less. I'm really glad that there are people out there willing to ask questions of their experiences and not just accept the status quo.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Majic » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:19 pm

A lot of conversations (on forums) seem to be ego driven posturing and needing to fill IMO some gap in the posters life. I stay away from a lot of these as well as I cant be bothered with the dead head attitudes than seem to come across. I can accept anyone's opinion and experience as theirs and that is completely valid but struggle with closed minds and rigid beliefs and the lack of debate and swapping of ideas that should occur.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby CFTraveler » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:15 pm

I miss all the good stuff. I had no idea that happened, but I don't get notifys there every time someone says something there.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Szaxx » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:11 am

Lionheart wrote:Ryan, did this happen on the Astral Projection Group? If it did, you can see one of the reasons why I recently quit there.

There may only be 800 or so members in the Astral Projectors Group, compared to over 3000 on the Astral Projection Group. But the content on the Projectors Group is much better and so are the members there.

Are they the peoples front of projectors or the projectors people front?
Monty Python.


Poor Robert, another reason I don't have a Facebook account.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby astralzombie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:29 pm

Ryan, I really do like your book. Not <just> for what it says but for exactly what it doesn't say.

People read too many books about projecting before they even try and then form this grand picture and set a very tiny parameter of what the experience should be. They expect too much in the beginning.

If you were a disincarnate soul out there doing your thing in the 144 density of the 12 realm to the third power and it took you the equivalent of 10000000000000000000000 zillion earth years to amass all your knowledge and then some guy happens to have a dream that is in tune with your frequency and is vibrating with the same resonance, and this guy can now see you for about 20 secs before they dissappear, would you take the time to validate his experience? Especially knowing that he's gonna wake up and think he was talking to scooby-doo because he was seeing the "real" you?

I'm not making light of planes and densities mind you,it's just a reference to how they are taking in way too many ideas and are trying to constrain them with no personal context. And I'm damn sure not making fun of scoobs! That's my dog!! :D
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Xanth » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:40 pm

Majic wrote:A lot of conversations (on forums) seem to be ego driven posturing and needing to fill IMO some gap in the posters life. I stay away from a lot of these as well as I cant be bothered with the dead head attitudes than seem to come across. I can accept anyone's opinion and experience as theirs and that is completely valid but struggle with closed minds and rigid beliefs and the lack of debate and swapping of ideas that should occur.

Yeah, that's a big chunk of the reason why this forum exists. It's for anyone who can discuss these topics with respect to what others have experienced. :)

Lionheart wrote:Ryan, did this happen on the Astral Projection Group? If it did, you can see one of the reasons why I recently quit there.

The other was when someone put a link to a free PDF by Robert Peterson up. Robert, himself asked them to take it down, since it violated his copyright agreement with his publisher. Robert then gave them the link to his website, where the book could be found for FREE. But that wasn't good enough for the lazy people on Facebook. The initial poster still kept it up and other people now were defending his stance to do it.
They were saying stupid stuff, like this info should be free, even though IT WAS FREE on his website. He tried to explain to them how a copyright works, but again, that fell on deaf ears.
I've had enough of ignorant people for awhile! :roll:

There may only be 800 or so members in the Astral Projectors Group, compared to over 3000 on the Astral Projection Group. But the content on the Projectors Group is much better and so are the members there

It was the Astral Projection group (the 3000+ one). And that's quite disappointing about Bob's book... although, I have to give him credit that he's still posting there helping people regardless. :) We can learn something from that. I put the one dude above on my ignore and block list... so he'll never see my posts and I'll never see his. I'm fine with that for now.

CFTraveler wrote:I miss all the good stuff. I had no idea that happened, but I don't get notifys there every time someone says something there.

I can add you to the group if you wish. But it's full of EXTREME beginners and people who have only really read about this stuff in books.
Lionheart, I can add you back too if you wish. :)

astralzombie wrote:Ryan, I really do like your book. Not for what it says but for exactly what it doesn't say.

People read too many books about projecting before they even try and then form this grand picture and set a very tiny parameter of what the experience should be. They expect too much in the beginning.

If you were a disincarnate soul out there doing your thing in the 144 density of the 12 realm to the third power and it took you the equivalent of 10000000000000000000000 zillion earth years to amass all your knowledge and then some guy happens to have a dream that is in tune with your frequency and is vibrating with the same resonance, and this guy can now see you for about 20 secs before they dissappear, would you take the time to validate his experience? Especially knowing that he's gonna wake up and think he was talking to scooby-doo because he was seeing the "real" you?

I'm not making light of planes and densities mind you,it's just a reference to how they are taking in way too many ideas and are trying to constrain them with no personal context. And I'm damn sure not making fun of scoobs! That's my dog!! :D

Thanks AZ. It means a lot that people are getting lots out of what I've written. :)

In regards to Astral Projection, booksmarts will only take you so far... even your own experiences, interpreted using those booksmarts will only take you so far.
You eventually have to branch out and find your own path. Otherwise you really won't get far.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Xanth » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:46 pm

Szaxx wrote:Poor Robert, another reason I don't have a Facebook account.

Well, for each "ass" out there, there are 10 people genuinely looking for help.
I wait for those 10 to find me through my work and my posts. :)
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Xanth » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:30 pm

Lionheart wrote:
Xanth wrote:I can add you to the group if you wish. But it's full of EXTREME beginners and people who have only really read about this stuff in books.
Lionheart, I can add you back too if you wish. :)

No Thanks, I feel it's full of people that see AP as the "flavor" of the day. There's a lot of "I just heard of this yesterday and think it would be cool to try" conversations there.

I love the Astral Projectors Group, it's loaded with all of the famous AP/LD authors and some very experienced others. Almost all of my Facebook friends have been accumulated from there.

I've been using the ignore/block feature a little more liberally with the Astral Projection group. It's made it much more worth it.
I do completely understand though. :)

I don't mind trying to help influence some more "on the fencers"... the ones who are wanting to learn, but are not quite sure or are looking in the wrong place for information.
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Majic » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:43 pm

Astral Projectors Group


what is web address, when I search there is a lot of results come up
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Re: Lucid Dreaming vs Astral Projection

Postby Xanth » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:04 pm

Majic wrote:
Astral Projectors Group


what is web address, when I search there is a lot of results come up

https://www.facebook.com/groups/146698888714454/

It's a group on facebook. :)
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