Here is a good quote....

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Here is a good quote....

Postby Methiculous » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:49 pm

I got this quote from watching a video on http://obe4u.com/. I only watched it because I thought the girl was hot. :oops:

BUT it had a very good quote that explains what I have known for a while and was never able to put so eloquently. It has to do with the state of mind in our consumer culture and lack of spiritualism.

"Man has been programmed for an unconscious existence, working his entire life from sun up to sundown to produce goods no one needs, just so that he can spend the money he earns on buying those very same useless items. Modern society depends on this endless rat race so much that it would immediately collapse if people merely woke up to what they spend most of their lives doing."

I close my eyes and see what I can see, whatever it may be.
It could be the sea, or I could see a bee.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter to me. Just let it be!
(written by a great poet after a dream... ME!)
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Here is a good quote....

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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Jettins » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:00 pm

I couldn't help it but laugh as I was reading that quote.

I think I see a few of them right now.

Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Xanth » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:47 pm

Michael Scannell wrote:I got this quote from watching a video on http://obe4u.com/. I only watched it because I thought the girl was hot. :oops:

BUT it had a very good quote that explains what I have known for a while and was never able to put so eloquently. It has to do with the state of mind in our consumer culture and lack of spiritualism.

"Man has been programmed for an unconscious existence, working his entire life from sun up to sundown to produce goods no one needs, just so that he can spend the money he earns on buying those very same useless items. Modern society depends on this endless rat race so much that it would immediately collapse if people merely woke up to what they spend most of their lives doing."


Raduga is a materialist.
I like his eBook... I don't like his conclusions.

I honestly suggest taking only the methods he shows to project and leave the rest behind.

From my experience, "waking up" has nothing to do with realizing what you spend most of your life doing... actually, it has nothing to do with anyone but yourself, your own consciousness.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby astralzombie » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:58 pm

When he first put that video out, he called it a documentary. :lol: It's just an infomercial for his "clinic".

I actually agree with the statement to a certain degree but I find it ironic as well. Raduga believes that this life is all there is and all that awaits is a pine box and hungry worms. I don't have a problem with that at all but I think that it is weird that he thinks man should strive to do more if there is nothing to come. What's it matter if we spend all of our money on worthless goods if that makes us happy in the moment since that's all he believes we have?
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Xanth » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:43 pm

astralzombie wrote:When he first put that video out, he called it a documentary. :lol: It's just an infomercial for his "clinic".

I actually agree with the statement to a certain degree but I find it ironic as well. Raduga believes that this life is all there is and all that awaits is a pine box and hungry worms. I don't have a problem with that at all but I think that it is weird that he thinks man should strive to do more if there is nothing to come. What's it matter if we spend all of our money on worthless goods if that makes us happy in the moment since that's all he believes we have?

It is a strange paradoxical belief... I came to that conclusion as well regarding materialism.

Beyond what I've experienced, even if I didn't experience what I have, I would still believe that life exists beyond the physical. Why? Because it would be a complete and utter waste of time if it didn't. If I'm going to be nothing but oblivion when I die, then there's absolutely no reason for me to exist in the first place. That's why that option isn't an option at all.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby astralzombie » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:44 am

I think that most people have an aversion to atheism for two reasons. Death and the idea of it being an objective finality is a frightful thought to many people. Even those who do not fear their own death, fear losing the ones they love.

The other reason is that people think atheists are very selfish. They seem to be viewed as people who deny themselves no pleasures even if this means they have to take something from others, and nobody wants to be the one taken from. Oddly enough, I see the religious do this more than any other.

I was wondering, can atheists believe in afterlife but not a creator? Since they believe that life is a product of the statistical probability of energy and material coming together under the right conditions, could this belief not allow for the same to occur in a non physical way? I suppose it could but I have only an elementary understanding of atheism, no creator equals no "soul" thus nothing to exist after physical death.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Szaxx » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:55 am

Serving no purpose is having no purpose, why exist? Procreation isn't the be and end all. Xanth hit the mark dead centre.
The general public don't want to know about it as no-one has told them to accept our art yet. The religious institutions postulate hell fire as your final resting place if you are not one of their flock. Many I've asked said they'd do nothing until the end and then if something extra did occur they'd call for Jesus or whoever, dependant on their base religion.

Atheism isn't selfish, its for those who wish to reflect on the myriads of dieties and control measures before any commitment is made.
Lets not forget, better things come to those that wait.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Methiculous » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:37 pm

I took the video with a grain of salt and like I said, my main reason for watching was the hot chick (who models going to sleep). It's funny and cheesy, and a little arousing. :lol:

And the main reason for the quote was to support his argument that there is a conspiracy among religion and politicians to stop people from having OBE's because it would undermine the consumer culture. I disagree with that; it's BS. I feel it is merely a human trend to focus more on materialism and there is no evil, bad guy, saying, "Muhahaha! I will keep this a secret!" But the quote still stands and is true.

I don't want to see society collapse though. But as a human race what are we achieving in the long run? Just going in circles mostly with creating stuff we don't really need. I love to laugh at cheesy infomercials trying to hawk a ridiculous item and yet, people buy into that. (Pun intended.) It's funny..... but also very sad. :cry:

Xanth wrote:I would still believe that life exists beyond the physical.


I don't know if it does or not, but one thing I have realized. When I am on my death bed and I recall all my life's memories, I will remember waking life and I will also remember my lucid dream life equally without much discrimination. So what was real, doesn't really matter. It was all a part of the human experience whether 'physical' or not.
I close my eyes and see what I can see, whatever it may be.
It could be the sea, or I could see a bee.
Don't you see? It doesn't matter to me. Just let it be!
(written by a great poet after a dream... ME!)
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Jack Reacher » Fri May 03, 2013 9:08 pm

Xanth wrote:
astralzombie wrote:When he first put that video out, he called it a documentary. :lol: It's just an infomercial for his "clinic".

I actually agree with the statement to a certain degree but I find it ironic as well. Raduga believes that this life is all there is and all that awaits is a pine box and hungry worms. I don't have a problem with that at all but I think that it is weird that he thinks man should strive to do more if there is nothing to come. What's it matter if we spend all of our money on worthless goods if that makes us happy in the moment since that's all he believes we have?

It is a strange paradoxical belief... I came to that conclusion as well regarding materialism.

Beyond what I've experienced, even if I didn't experience what I have, I would still believe that life exists beyond the physical. Why? Because it would be a complete and utter waste of time if it didn't. If I'm going to be nothing but oblivion when I die, then there's absolutely no reason for me to exist in the first place. That's why that option isn't an option at all.


I don't see why that is an option. Lets say you are right, that there is no reason for you to exist in the first place if there is no life after death. How is that a reason for you to not believe in it then? Just because it isn't a pretty picture doesn't mean its not true. If it is true it means you are pretty much living in delusion.
A particle physicist is a collection of atoms that have gotten together to observe themselves.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby astralzombie » Sat May 04, 2013 12:04 pm

If it is true it means you are pretty much living in delusion.

True but there would be no harm in this delusion. If this life is all there is, then nothing matters. Nothing. Any significance we give a life with nothing to follow is still meaningless. Kindness, love, fear, hatred, all meaningless.

It just makes sense to me that this matters and it would only matter if there was something to be learned from the experience. What we learn would only matter if there was another experience to apply it to.

The only delusion that I fear is that I might one day disregard my personal experiences and my ever-evolving beliefs because they can't be proven to be an objective truth. That would be a sad day for me and a meaningless existence.

Would evolution really account for this kind of delusion? Some might say yes because we tend to be nicer and more agreeable when we think it matters, so we may live longer lives but I see no real evidence of that. Look at all the destruction left in the wake of religion yet I wonder if it would be much worse if no one believed in an "afterlife".

And if it did, man aside, why isn't this delusion apparent in the animal kingdom?
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby CFTraveler » Sat May 04, 2013 2:55 pm

You know, once again I'm going to be the voice of dissidence.
I want to clarify I'm not an atheist (I'm actually a card-carrying panentheist who actually goes to church, and gets into all kinds of absurd arguments about religion, but that's another post.) Yet I have found that the atheists that are not religious (or fanatical about their atheism)- I like to call them the humanists- value life because in their view that's all there is- after all, there is eternity in time (as in fractals, math, etc.) and if this is all there is, when we're alive we're eternal, and when we go it doesn't matter, because there is a point in time in which we have existed, and we better have made a better world for those who come after us. There seems to be a purity of 'being' in this type of atheism, the ability to hold the preciousness of 'now' because it's our eternity- that is not found in religious fanatics that see the material as only the step before 'eternity', and because they don't see it as important, disregard the planet and others of whom they disapprove of, because they're part of the material world. They know who they are.
I don't have that assurance of this world here-and-now being enough, and I envy those who are content with it, because I'm not.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Jack Reacher » Sat May 04, 2013 3:31 pm

astralzombie wrote:
If it is true it means you are pretty much living in delusion.

True but there would be no harm in this delusion. If this life is all there is, then nothing matters. Nothing. Any significance we give a life with nothing to follow is still meaningless. Kindness, love, fear, hatred, all meaningless.

It just makes sense to me that this matters and it would only matter if there was something to be learned from the experience. What we learn would only matter if there was another experience to apply it to.

The only delusion that I fear is that I might one day disregard my personal experiences and my ever-evolving beliefs because they can't be proven to be an objective truth. That would be a sad day for me and a meaningless existence.

Would evolution really account for this kind of delusion? Some might say yes because we tend to be nicer and more agreeable when we think it matters, so we may live longer lives but I see no real evidence of that. Look at all the destruction left in the wake of religion yet I wonder if it would be much worse if no one believed in an "afterlife".

And if it did, man aside, why isn't this delusion apparent in the animal kingdom?


Well animals just arent as self conscious as we are, its just random. We happened to get to where we are by random evolution and thus to make sense of this random chaotic unintended step the mind makes up stories to make sense of it. Honestly what makes the most sense to me as that the human race was an unintended physical accident, some molecules bumped in a funny way that made a more complicated molecule etc etc and here we are. Everything we think of is derived from that, there is no escaping it. An yes delusion is harmful to yourself, if you live a life not living for anyting that is real butrather random arbitrary concepts that float around in your head that don't matter at all, then your life is well.... wasted.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby astralzombie » Sat May 04, 2013 5:29 pm

Well animals just arent as self conscious as we are, its just random. We happened to get to where we are by random evolution and thus to make sense of this random chaotic unintended step the mind makes up stories to make sense of it. Honestly what makes the most sense to me as that the human race was an unintended physical accident, some molecules bumped in a funny way that made a more complicated molecule etc etc and here we are. Everything we think of is derived from that, there is no escaping it. An yes delusion is harmful to yourself, if you live a life not living for anyting that is real butrather random arbitrary concepts that float around in your head that don't matter at all, then your life is well.... wasted.


In any case, I think we can agree that if one applies their beliefs and finds happiness, it isn't wasted.

It might be meaningless, but it isn't wasted. :D
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Jack Reacher » Sat May 04, 2013 7:33 pm

Im talking about the potential of your life.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby astralzombie » Sat May 04, 2013 9:27 pm

Im talking about the potential of your life.


Someone can cure cancer, end world hunger, and save the rainforest and if this life is all there is, there is no potential.

Sure there will be praise, money, and awards galore but there is no potential, just death.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Jack Reacher » Sat May 04, 2013 10:45 pm

astralzombie wrote:
Im talking about the potential of your life.


Someone can cure cancer, end world hunger, and save the rainforest and if this life is all there is, there is no potential.

Sure there will be praise, money, and awards galore but there is no potential, just death.


You are thinking way too much about the end, anyone ever tell you life is in the process, the journey? You can't find life in the results, you can't find meaning simply on reflection, and its not about the rewards either. Im simply saying you can make much more of your self, your being here on this life by actually making something of yourself and doing bigger things. Sure you can have a quite life and just hope that there is some conscious thing on the "other side", no harm done... but thats all your life will be.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Xanth » Sat May 04, 2013 11:07 pm

Different perspectives, eh? :)

It's all good. The spice of life. hehe
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby astralzombie » Sun May 05, 2013 1:02 am

Ok, but I was only discussing the end since that's what I focused on here. On this thread. If I was talking the price of tea in China, I can see where someone might think I was only focused on the tea when there was kool-aid to drink as well.
Last edited by astralzombie on Mon May 06, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby Jack Reacher » Sun May 05, 2013 3:50 am

I see what your getting at, I guess im talking more about people who base their entire lives off those concepts, a kind of extremist group. Although frankly I don't see how anyone can not belong to that group and believe in those concepts at the same time, unless of course they don't really believe that stuff and are just fooling themselves.
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Re: Here is a good quote....

Postby astralzombie » Mon May 06, 2013 12:54 pm

I think we just each misunderstood each other at some point. In my case, the pesky ego got the best of me. So with that said, I hope we can other discussions that are more fruitful for the both of us and others as well.

Ont thing I have realized is that Ryan has got a good group of people here and I am learning something from everyone, especially from those that do not always agree with my theories. That's the best part of a forum like this.

:D :) :lol: :lol: :) :D
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