Unlimited Boundaries

[satsujin]

Hi all, I am an epileptic who used to be agnostic until spiritual experiences I had led me to become a non-religious theist. I feel AP or lucid dreaming can help me understand the spiritual world better. I've seen Lesson 1 and 2 and am also currently reading Tom Campbell's My big TOE. Here are my responses to the join questions since I'd like to join Astral Academy.

1.Give us a general understanding of what kind of knowledge you have regarding astral projection.
I have knowledge based on books I've read re lucid dreaming and OBEs. I've read a lot but have yet to actually experience it.


2.What kind of expectations do you have towards projection... what do you think projection is?
I understand astral projection to be a conscious non physical existence away from the physical body. I believe this can be manifested either through an OBE or through lucid dreaming. Basically the key concept is to be conscious of the non physical.

3. What kind of methods/techniques have you tried?
The current method I am trying is the following:
-Doing several nostril reality checks during the day
-MEntally repeating "I am dreaming" when I go to bed
-When I wake up in the middle of the night(do this every night without need of alarm) try to keep mind aware while letting body fall asleep.

4. How long have you been attempting them for?
Only 3 days so far. Fallen asleep each time so far but will stick to it and keep trying. Experienced partial sleep paralysis(from feet to knees) on third day.

5. What kind of goals do you have for learning Projection? You can be general or specific.
I want to learn projection into the NPR to understand the nature of reality better. Curiousity is what drives me. I also have spiritual goals regarding understanding more of the consciousness that defines our universe. Once I can maintain a stable presence in the NPR I might try to learn methods to heal my family members through healing technoques in NPR. Also, it would be interesting to see more of the PR and talk with spirit guides there.

[satsujin]

I realize I've only been trying for less than a week but I'm wondering if anyone could clarify some stuff for me.

Some reports on SP claim it affects the entire body while others say it is just the chest,stomach and throat and that wiggling your extremities can break it. Others say it is always associated by fear(produced by the amygdala) manifested as a presence of some entity suffocating you. As an epileptic, I've experienced fear seizures from my amygdala so I have some idea of what to expect but so far have not experienced anything like that in the SP I've felt so far. Also, in the SP I've had I've only been paralyzed upto my waist and including my arms. My chest, stomach and head can still move so: Is this sleep paralysis I am experiencing?
And does it only happen while lying on your back? I've felt it both on my back and lying on my side...the effect was stronger on my side.

[satsujin]

In addition, I am currently trying to stay mind aware, body asleep by repeating a phrase after going to sleep after waking up in middle of the night. Which do you recommend: "I am dreaming" or "Am I dreaming?"

[Szaxx]

Sleep paralysis is not a requirement, its a signpost if you actually get SP. I can't recall any in 50+ years of experiences.
What you mentally say has to keep you just aware enough to stay concious of who you are. It can be words or a mantra.
Hope that helps.

[satsujin]

You say SP is not not a requirement. What about hypnagogic imagery? I have never been able to experience that though I have watched the darkness behind my eyes during meditation and sleep time.

[Xanth]

You say SP is not not a requirement. What about hypnagogic imagery? I have never been able to experience that though I have watched the darkness behind my eyes during meditation and sleep time.

Sleep Paralysis is a symptom of projection. If you're experiencing sleep paralysis, you're actually already projecting... the mistake most people make is that they either freak out and cause an intense fear experience to occur, or they manage to stay calm and then "believe" that they need to do something like "roll out" of their body. The belief that we are these consciousnesses INSIDE a physical body is pervasive throughout most societies.
But yes, Szaxx is 100% correct. SP isn't a requirement to project. You never need to experience it... or Vibrations for that matter in order to project.

Hypnogogic Imagery is also a symptom, once you start "seeing" that, then your consciousness is essentially fluttering between "here" and "there". Allow that flutter process to happen... allow your awareness to continue it's deepening away from the physical until a moment hits when the imagery stablizes and you find yourself somewhere else. This is slightly different from experiencing Sleep Paralysis, since, as I said, when you experience that, you're already "there". Just get up and go! Don't fight it.

Szaxx might want to add more to this.

[satsujin]

Strange. I've read that you cna experience HI during meditation as well but I've seen nothing like that, not even a difference in the blackness, during my 20 min med sequences.

[Xanth]

Strange. I've read that you cna experience HI during meditation as well but I've seen nothing like that, not even a difference in the blackness, during my 20 min med sequences.

You certainly can experience Hypnogogic Imagery during meditation.
I meditate every morning for anywhere between 20 - 25 minutes and quite often I'll get hit with some hypnogogic imagery quite often... I don't meditate with the goal of projecting, but sometimes it "just happens". Spontaneously.

Those hypnogogic images IS projection. It's just a quick, fleeting projection. If you were able to get into a hypnogogic image, and stay there... that's a projection.

For myself, sometimes it can take me anywhere from 10 - 20 minutes to simply get into the correct mindset as I'm meditating for those HI's to kick in. So, you might have to give it a bit more time than 20 minutes.
Keep relaxing... keep bringing your awareness deeper and deeper away from your physical senses. Keep doing that, and you'll eventually hit the point where HI triggers.

[satsujin]

Thanks Xanth. I currently meditate lying on my back as I find the lotus posture uncomfortable. I'll try for longer periods but in that position longer sessions lead me into sleep. Also, in the past couple of days since I decided to try and experience LDs or OBEs, while meditating, I mentally repeat the question "Am I dreaming?" continously while visualizing me doing the nostril breathing reality check. Will this prevent me from abandoning the physical sense or is focusing on a mental construct a good way to leave the physical senses?

[Xanth]

Thanks Xanth. I currently meditate lying on my back as I find the lotus posture uncomfortable. I'll try for longer periods but in that position longer sessions lead me into sleep. Also, in the past couple of days since I decided to try and experience LDs or OBEs, while meditating, I mentally repeat the question "Am I dreaming?" continously while visualizing me doing the nostril breathing reality check. Will this prevent me from abandoning the physical sense or is focusing on a mental construct a good way to leave the physical senses?

Well, first things first... your posture is relatively meaningless beyond the fact that you need to be comfortable and be able to stay in that posture for long periods of time. So any "special" positions like the lotus position isn't needed and actually works against you if you're unable to relax while in it.

Lying down also comes with it's own downside that most people fall asleep too easily. Try sitting up in a recliner chair if you're able to. It's a good compromise between lying down and sitting up, yet still being comfortable and allowing the blood to flow easily through your legs.

As for focusing on your breath coming in your nose, that's fine. Your ultimate goal is to ignore your 5 physical senses... and push your awareness away from them. You can use your physical sense as a focus in order to do that though... as backwards as that sounds. LoL As long as you can focus on that one thing to the exclusion of everything else. It'll be just fine.

Read this article: www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2015/01/21/d ... technique/

In it, I explain how to "find your focus" in order to create your own projection method which is uniquely suited to yourself.

[satsujin]

I already read that article on this site which I why I realized it didn't matter what I focused on as long as it helped me come into the non physical at the exclusion of the physical. The reason I decided to focus on repeating "Am I dreaming?" while mentally visualizing me holding my nostrils was that I hoped this would help trigger a reality check once I came into the dream.
You may have guessed that my real goal is a lucid dream than astral projection since I believe it is more plausible and also since I've read one can physically project once one is conscious in the dream state. I should state while this a goal close to my heart, I am in no rush to achieve it. It will come when it will come though I strongly believe it will come given enough time. I have a personal issue with patience but since like I said this is close to my heart I can overcome the issue. I have only just started but believe I now need to practice and refine the technique of lying still in bed and building my focus.

[Xanth]

I already read that article on this site which I why I realized it didn't matter what I focused on as long as it helped me come into the non physical at the exclusion of the physical. The reason I decided to focus on repeating "Am I dreaming?" while mentally visualizing me holding my nostrils was that I hoped this would help trigger a reality check once I came into the dream.

You misunderstand.

It DOES matter what you focus on. Everyone will have a different KIND of focus.
You need to find the appropriate focus which will work "for you".

Some people simply work better with different kinds of focuses. So keep trying the one you've chosen, but if you find it's not working or if it's not holding your awareness, then you'll need to move on to something else.

You may have guessed that my real goal is a lucid dream than astral projection since I believe it is more plausible and also since I've read one can physically project once one is conscious in the dream state. I should state while this a goal close to my heart, I am in no rush to achieve it. It will come when it will come though I strongly believe it will come given enough time. I have a personal issue with patience but since like I said this is close to my heart I can overcome the issue. I have only just started but believe I now need to practice and refine the technique of lying still in bed and building my focus.

A lucid dream and an astral projection are the same thing. What you're aiming for is to simply become consciously aware while you're non-physical.
Once you're consciously aware in a "dream state", you're ALREADY projecting. You're getting stuck, as most people do, on the labels.

There are no dreams
There are no lucid dreams
There are no astral projections

There's only you experiencing the non-physical with varying levels of awareness.
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/ ... -physical/
Give that article a read and see if you can take into yourself what I'm trying to say above.

It's paramount to understanding what you're actually aiming to do here and will make it easier to teach you.

[satsujin]

I already read that article on this site which I why I realized it didn't matter what I focused on as long as it helped me come into the non physical at the exclusion of the physical. The reason I decided to focus on repeating "Am I dreaming?" while mentally visualizing me holding my nostrils was that I hoped this would help trigger a reality check once I came into the dream.

You misunderstand.

It DOES matter what you focus on. Everyone will have a different KIND of focus.
You need to find the appropriate focus which will work "for you".

You'll note I didn't simply say the focus "didn't matter" but "didn't matter what I focused on as long as it helped me come into the non physical".....so I think we were both saying the same thing.
I am a little confused about the nature of focus though. You say:

if you find it's not working or if it's not holding your awareness, then you'll need to move on to something else.

What do you mean by "holding my awareness"? Does it mean I should stay awake while practicing holding this focus? Or is it okay to go to sleep while holding this focus? Obviously the goal is to stay awake mentally while going to sleep physically but this may take some time to achieve.

A lucid dream and an astral projection are the same thing. What you're aiming for is to simply become consciously aware while you're non-physical.
Once you're consciously aware in a "dream state", you're ALREADY projecting. You're getting stuck, as most people do, on the labels.

There are no dreams
There are no lucid dreams
There are no astral projections

There's only you experiencing the non-physical with varying levels of awareness.
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/ ... -physical/
Give that article a read and see if you can take into yourself what I'm trying to say above.

Does this mean I won't have to learn a technique to project into the physical reality from the dream reality? That from within the dream, I can create a representation of the physical reality through intent? On this site, you mention a technique of questioning the present, past and future to become astrally aware from a lucid state. This seems simple enough once you are lucid but I ask if it will bring you into a representation of the real world from the dream world. One of the tests I would like to try once I am lucid, is place some information in the real world that i dont know and discover it by traversing the dream/astral world.

[Xanth]

What do you mean by "holding my awareness"? Does it mean I should stay awake while practicing holding this focus? Or is it okay to go to sleep while holding this focus? Obviously the goal is to stay awake mentally while going to sleep physically but this may take some time to achieve.

You said it. Essentially, what you're aiming to do is have your body fall asleep, yet keep your mind (your awareness) awake.
However, with that said, you don't even need to put your body to sleep. You could just ignore all physical sensations instead... that essentially simulates the same state as your body "sleeping".

Now, what I mean by "holding your awareness" is that if you're simply falling asleep then the "focus" that you've chosen isn't able to hold your awareness.
Your goal is to place your awareness ENTIRELY upon/within the Focus you've chosen to use. What this does is, if done properly, it pushes your awareness away from your physical senses. It starts the process by which you begin to ignore your physical senses. If you can't do that, then you're losing focus... or in other words, your focus isn't holding your awareness.

Think of it like you putting your cold hand in a bowl of warm water. At first the water feels REALLY HOT, because the water is warm and your hand is cold. Eventually, as time goes by, your hand eventually warms up to the temperature of the water and eventually, given enough time, your hand will become acclimated to the water and you won't even feel the water or the temperature anymore. Not until you pull your hand out. That's what you want your awareness to do in regards to your 5 physical senses. As you push your awareness away from everything physical, you're essentially causing it to become numb to those physical senses.

You can actually test this with EACH of your 5 physical senses.

Touch - I just discussed touch above with the water and your hand.

Smell - Go into a smelly room and take a deep breath. EWWW... smells horrible, right? Now take a few more deep breaths and you'll notice the smell getting less worse and less worse with each breath you take... until eventually you can't smell it anymore. To smell it again, you need to go to where the air is different and acclimate your sense of smell to something else... THEN go back and you'll smell the bad smell again. It's not that the smell goes away, you just become acclimated to it.

Hearing - Put on a constant tone and just listen to it, eventually, the tone will begin to meld into the background sound as your ears become acclimated to the tone.

Sight - Stare at your face in a mirror. Don't let your field of vision "refresh" by not blinking. Keep staring and you'll see a funny effect begin to happen. Basically, you'll begin to get acclimated to what you're seeing and it'll begin to dissapate in front of your very eyes. You'll see parts of your face shift and move... and entire parts disappear entirely. This is you becoming acclimated to what you're seeing. This doesn't happen to you on a regular basis because things are moving along with your blinking... it "refreshes" what you're seeing.

Taste - This one works in the same way, but it's harder to test. The more sugar you ate, for example, the less you would actually taste the sugar. I don't suggest testing this one though.

But as you see, the goal is essentially acclimate your awareness to your 5 physical senses so that your awareness simply don't experience them anymore. That's not to say your physical senses aren't still being bombarded with information... because they are... your awareness simply isn't processing that information anymore.

Does that help clarify things anymore?

Does this mean I won't have to learn a technique to project into the physical reality from the dream reality? That from within the dream, I can create a representation of the physical reality through intent? On this site, you mention a technique of questioning the present, past and future to become astrally aware from a lucid state. This seems simple enough once you are lucid but I ask if it will bring you into a representation of the real world from the dream world. One of the tests I would like to try once I am lucid, is place some information in the real world that i dont know and discover it by traversing the dream/astral world.

That's quite correct.

What I referred to when I'm talking about the questioning your present, past and future is about increasing your awareness while you're already non-physical. This goes back to the article I linked above about Labeling your Experiences.
It's about increasing your awareness from the varying levels (from dream awareness to lucid awareness to astral awareness). You do this by bringing your analytical mind into the experience by asking yourself those particular questions. It causes you to have to REALLY THINK about what's going on and how you go there in order to trigger an astral awareness.

Now, when most people talk about having a "lucid dream"... they generally describe themselves to be as awake and aware as they are right now. What that means to me is that it's an "astral awareness experience". Or in other words, it's a FULL astral projection... not a lucid dream. So people get hung up on the terms they've read about too much and they would then discount their entire experience because it wasn't what they wanted it to be... when instead, they were actually 100% successful!

If you're lucidly aware while non-physical, then ask those questions and see if you can't wake your awareness up completely.

[satsujin]

Thanks for the clarification there, Xanth.

Just to give you a clearer picture of how my focus technique is currently working:
-I am currently just verbally repeating the question "Am I dreaming?" in my head. I used to also at the same time visualize me pinching my nose like in the reality check but decided to drop this so I could have a clearer focus.
-Currently I lose sense of my body but get drawn back to it when I feel a change in my heartbeat for example. Or there is an itch somewhere. Does that mean my focus is not complex enough to hold my awareness or only that I need more practice?

Don't I NEED to fall asleep while repeating my question to have a lucid dream?? Or do I go straight from my focused state to the lucid state? If that's the case then is a verbal focus sufficient? Wouldn't a visual focus be more important for a dream scene? Or would I become lucid while dreaming about a black scene where I hear the question being repeated?

[satsujin]

Also, if I am unable to achieve lucidity within a month, would you recommend the following change in my technique?

Instead of mentally repeating the words "Am I dreaming?" while I go to sleep, have them playing out loud(but not too loud) in bedroom so that is the last thing I hear when I doze off?

[satsujin]

I've also heard foods like almonds and bananas can be helpful. Is this true? Oh well, maybe even the placebo effect will help. And they are healthy foods!

[Xanth]

Thanks for the clarification there, Xanth.

Just to give you a clearer picture of how my focus technique is currently working:
-I am currently just verbally repeating the question "Am I dreaming?" in my head. I used to also at the same time visualize me pinching my nose like in the reality check but decided to drop this so I could have a clearer focus.
-Currently I lose sense of my body but get drawn back to it when I feel a change in my heartbeat for example. Or there is an itch somewhere. Does that mean my focus is not complex enough to hold my awareness or only that I need more practice?

For your "focus", it basically comes down to whatever you find works best for yourself. Everyone will have a focus which uniquely works for them. It's almost impossible for me to say what your focus will be, you are in a much better position to know.

However, I'd stress to not worry too much about things like itches or a change in heartbeat. If you itch, just calmly and slowly move to scratch it. You should be able to get into a relaxed, calm state yet still move slightly in order to take care of those kinds of things without losing the mental focus you've gained at that point. Same goes for the change in heartbeat... just mentally acknowledge it, then move on from it. You're allowing it to TAKE your awareness, don't let that happen.

Any focus which you deem to be working for you will be more than plenty to "hold your awareness".

Don't I NEED to fall asleep while repeating my question to have a lucid dream?? Or do I go straight from my focused state to the lucid state? If that's the case then is a verbal focus sufficient? Wouldn't a visual focus be more important for a dream scene? Or would I become lucid while dreaming about a black scene where I hear the question being repeated?

It can vary really.
You might shift directly to the non-physical...
You might fall asleep then become aware while dreaming (while already in the non-physical)...

As I said, your verbal focus should be sufficient, so long as it's a kind of focus which works for you. If you find, after a period of time (a month should be about right) that you're not making any headway... change it up.

For example, a Focus which is more "visual" works better for me. So I use the noticing exercise instead.

Also, if I am unable to achieve lucidity within a month, would you recommend the following change in my technique?

Instead of mentally repeating the words "Am I dreaming?" while I go to sleep, have them playing out loud(but not too loud) in bedroom so that is the last thing I hear when I doze off?

That "could" work. I usually have relaxing music or tibetan singing bowl music playing in the background. Just relaxes me more. So the best I can suggest is to just experiment to see what works best for you.

I've also heard foods like almonds and bananas can be helpful. Is this true? Oh well, maybe even the placebo effect will help. And they are healthy foods!

The only thing you need to worry about is remaining comfortable. So don't eat foods which make you feel uncomfortable, or don't eat until you're too full either. Other than that, yes, it's really all placebo and belief-based.

[satsujin]

Hmmm, well I've only been doing this 5 days so gotta give it time. But most of the time, unless I'm fully refreshed when I wake up, I go back to sleep pretty quick while repeating my focus phrase. And when I DO wake up in the middle of the night, I dont move at all. Most times I dont even open my eyes. I just become conscious and start repeating the question. Do you think I should get up for a few mins? Also, I am lying in my normal sleeping position. Maybe I should lie on my back? A position in which I find it harder to sleep.

By the way, my dream recall is pretty good. I can always recall one dream well and usually another dream vaguely.

Also, I've managed to move my meditation time upto 30 mins without falling asleep on my back but still no HI.

And you have any knowledge of the LD experience of epileptics? I'm one and a lot of the meds I'm on are meant to reduce brain activity and are also sedative in effect. Hmmm, just did a little Google research and it turns out the meds I'm actually on tend to INCREASE lucid dreaming or dream vividness ---- I certainly experience vivid dreams.

[Xanth]

Hmmm, well I've only been doing this 5 days so gotta give it time. But most of the time, unless I'm fully refreshed when I wake up, I go back to sleep pretty quick while repeating my focus phrase. And when I DO wake up in the middle of the night, I dont move at all. Most times I dont even open my eyes. I just become conscious and start repeating the question. Do you think I should get up for a few mins? Also, I am lying in my normal sleeping position. Maybe I should lie on my back? A position in which I find it harder to sleep.

Yup! Position yourself in a position that you don't associate with "sleeping". That would help definitely.
It would be entirely better if you could move to a new location where you're not lying down.

By the way, my dream recall is pretty good. I can always recall one dream well and usually another dream vaguely.

My dream recall has always been pretty poor. Mostly because I wake up via an alarm every morning and don't put enough thought into my dreams the moment I wake... so I forget them easily.

Also, I've managed to move my meditation time upto 30 mins without falling asleep on my back but still no HI.

The only times I DON'T get hypnogogic imagery is when I'm not able to really deepen my awareness away from the physical.

It sounds like you just maybe need to continue working on that aspect?

And you have any knowledge of the LD experience of epileptics? I'm one and a lot of the meds I'm on are meant to reduce brain activity and are also sedative in effect. Hmmm, just did a little Google research and it turns out the meds I'm actually on tend to INCREASE lucid dreaming or dream vividness ---- I certainly experience vivid dreams.

What I do know is that there are a lot of medications out there which have this kind of effect. Phantom (one of the other mods) might have more information on that. She's a nurse with a lot of knowledge in that area.