First "Lucid-Like" experience

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First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby Jettins » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:29 pm

Posted @ astralvoid.com

The beginning of my interest in astral projection started with an interest in lucid dreaming. Days after doing a lot of reading, I had absolutely no interest in lucid dreaming what so ever and was much more interested in astral projection. Every night, I attempt deep meditation with the goal of reaching the vibration state and ultimately astral projection. As of yet I have not reached my ultimate goal but I don't beat myself up over it. I love every experience I have had thus far even if it is not an actual projection. With doing this every night, I guess it was bound to happen that I would have a lucid dream. I describe it as "lucid-like" because I did not have full control. In the dream, I was being taken away by someone when I tried to scream and nothing would come out. I said to myself in the dream, "maybe its sleep paralysis" and I tried hard to shake myself out of it and scream again. At first nothing and then finally a scream escaped, so much that my husband nearly had a heart attack and had to sit up and calm himself because I scared him half to death. I however didn't physically hear the scream. I heard the scream in the dream but didn't wake. I woke from sleep when my husband as me what the hell was wrong with me. I was interested by the fact that I thought to myself in the dream- furthermore thought of sleep paralysis which I associate with astral projection. Seems I am doing an adequate job of saturating my subconscious with astral jargon ;) Although, lucid dreaming is not something I have an acute interest in, I am taking the experience, as small as it was, as a sign that I am reaching greater depths. Thanks for reading. As always, any input is greatly appreciated!

First things first.

More often than not, when people say that they would like to have astral projections instead of lucid dreams it is because they would like to have experiences of the “spirit”. This is a good thing because it shows a degree of maturity by having outgrown many of the silly-like lucid dreams. But this in itself it simply an intent, and it will not necessarily determine which type of experiences are produced. Having astral projection as the aim or goal is great. It can be the same as when having an intended destination, at least initially. However, the process of getting the to destination might be equality important as it builds a foundation. I will explain what I mean by this in relation to dreams and projections. Lucid dream can be changed into legitimate astral projections in the same experience flow. When this happens there is an increase in psychic perception, or simply put, a particular change in the psychology of the explorer. This particular change, as I’ve noticed, it’s something that each individual eventually realizes which in turn opens the door to realities that originate predominantly outside them. But I don’t want to stay abstract so I’ll share some examples of changes (or shifts as I like to call them) in consciousness that lead into full blown astral realities from within lucid dream like states.

But first I would like to define lucid dreams and astral projections just a bit further. An astral projection is an objectified non-physical reality defined by the physiological conditions or state of the human organism as it expresses itself; moreover, the conditions have two tendencies: to expand (unbound) and to contract (bound) as I like to simplify. When it expands, we get astral projection states, and when it contracts we get lucid dream states. Now we can see that these states are not really separate from one another as they are degrees of the same thing. Like hot and cold being degrees of temperature; astral projection and lucid dreams are degrees of being. When it finds psychic equilibrium, it has also finds its plane. For now, we can see how understanding this basic can help in identifying potential “shifts” intellectually and on paper, but the actual practice of it will come soon enough. There is a threshold component that also needs to be examined as we get closer to applying it. At this point the psyche transfers or shifts from one state or plane into another; from a lucid dream into a projected state; from a subjective into an objective state; from illusions into relative spiritual truths – and if you want to get introspective and philosophical; from inauthentic to authentic. But remember, the words we give meaning to, all in all, are degrees of the same thing – degrees of being.

Some will say that a "lucid dream" simply means that a person has "lucidity", and this is very true, however even this level of awareness and the application of this objectivity does not solve the horrible living conditions of some who are "lucid" automatically, and those that know they are dead may also live "lucid dream" like realities and be confined to their personal space. The decision making psychological component deserves real attention. We should get into the meaning of "lucidity" in terms of personal evolution if we want to get somewhere I think.

Now that I’ve explained all this, I can put what I’m about to say into context. To shift from a lucid dream to an astral projection experience the individual has to find the “exit point” of the dream, so to speak. This can be done in several ways, the list is longer:

- A false awakening (FA) immediately after a dream. After waking up from a strange experience, the individual is found lying down in the astral copy of the bedroom. At this point there has being a shift that was not recognized objectively, however, the likely hood that the previous dream, by means of releasing something physiologically inadvertently triggered the exit of the dream generating a shift into the projected state. Vibration can be felt at this point, but not always. The individual may require a separation technique if he or she experiences sleep paralysis, or simply get up from the bed in a quasi-physical life action.

- A portal within a lucid dream. During the lucid dream the individual can use mental commands attempting to exit the dream. This psychological process is also accompanied with an action within the experience. The individual may choice to go through a wall, through the ground, or any action that adds resolution to the mental command. As you can imagine, this shift can also be made while being static, but don’t worry about this one just yet. The individual will not always be able to leave the confines of the dream.

- Identifying the reasons behind the lucid dream illusions. This one becomes self-explanatory as it takes place. But it will also require a degree of introspection, or a desire to learn. While identifying the purpose of the lucid dream objective awareness and the level of lucidity become higher. There is no definite “exit point” from within the dream, instead, this time the shift happens in a fluid like motion dissolving away the old perspective. Existentially this takes the form of the end of one thing, and the beginning of a new thing. Visually it may take different forms: It may simply dissolve away, or some boundary is instantly realized as the exit. The individual is then taken to a place that is more appropriate to their new perspective and in accordance to their “readiness” state.

- Projecting from a physical awake state. If physical reality was a dream, I could say that non-physical reality is like waking up or shifting from that dream, and like peeling away an onion. In fact, it may be layered in such a way. My personal approach is to attempt to apply all the methods listed above, because it increases my lucidity and objectivity, making it so that I can have interesting astral encounters, sometimes even every single day at times. There are many focusing techniques, approaches or tutorials for this.

As you will be able to see, the points mentioned above being able to be combined into a single experience, are degrees of exactly the same thing.

Mavie wrote:Every night, I attempt deep meditation with the goal of reaching the vibration state and ultimately astral projection. As of yet I have not reached my ultimate goal but I don't beat myself up over it.

In my view it is easier to have out-of-body experiences in the mornings and after at least 4 hours of continuous sleep. At this point, the body being in a naturally meditative state from the rest wants to fall to sleep rather quickly, it is at this point that increasing conscious awareness, by means of meditation or any other technique - that it becomes very effective. For example MILD or (Mnemonic induced lucid dream) can also be used in preparation for a projection.

So, if we maximize equilibrium, using a higher force against a lower, a higher law against a lower, by transmutation or changing aspects of our being, and as I’ve seen this fact manifested in so many different ways physically and in the astral, something great happens indeed. I know this statement is very vague, but I will clarify it when I discuss several new experiences. I will get to them soon enough. I have some new diagrams showing this process. I'm re-learning illustrator again and will share them at some point.
Last edited by Jettins on Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:32 am, edited 6 times in total.
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First "Lucid-Like" experience

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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby wstein » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:53 pm

FYI: A lucid dream is simply being aware that you are dreaming while still in the dream. 'Full control' is an advanced skill, not a perquisite. So congratulations, it was a 'lucid experience'.
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby wstein » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:13 pm

Lionheart wrote:I have learned that even though you have "full control" over a Lucid Experience you really shouldn't use it. I have seen that controlling your own actions, as in reacting to the scenario is enough. When we control everything that happens, we miss the message that is being shown to us.

I will "rescript" a LD if I don't like the outcome and I usually encounter "loops" if I haven't come up with a worthy or correct solution to said task or quest.

I still do question though, who the judge of whether I am coming up with a worthy or correct solution really is. I just finished reading Robert Monroe's Far Journeys and saw that he was constantly undergoing these challenges as well. He called the "loops" "Clicking". Which is a good term as well, since you are "clicking out" and back in during one of them.
That seems a bit overly pessimistic. I agree that if you interfere with a 'normal' dream that you wake up to, you can miss the message. Exerting full control can be become addictive or compulsive, again not so good.

However, full control can allow you so create a whole new scenario and try it out. Sometimes the reality of a situation is not as good as the imagining of it. I have used it to identify unforeseen outcomes or unexpected factors in a situation. It certainly works as a form of aversion therapy (acclimating to something scary a bit at a time to relieve the fear).
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby wstein » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:28 pm

Lionheart wrote:I have learned that even though you have "full control" over a Lucid Experience you really shouldn't use it.

wstein wrote: That seems a bit overly pessimistic. I agree that if you interfere with a 'normal' dream that you wake up to, you can miss the message. Exerting full control can be become addictive or compulsive, again not so good.

However, full control can allow you so create a whole new scenario and try it out. Sometimes the reality of a situation is not as good as the imagining of it. I have used it to identify unforeseen outcomes or unexpected factors in a situation. It certainly works as a form of aversion therapy (acclimating to something scary a bit at a time to relieve the fear).

Lionheart wrote: Why would you find it "overly" pessimistic? If there is a message to be seen, lesson to be learned, then by taking over the entire scenario, you kind of "shoot the messenger" per say.
The statement at the top suggests there is no good reason to exercise full control. I am indicating that there are uses for full control. While I agree that one can ‘miss’ a message from a normal dream, that is not the only kind of dreams one normally has. Further, full control allows for new types of dreams that definitely have positive value.
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby Xanth » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:13 pm

wstein wrote:FYI: A lucid dream is simply being aware that you are dreaming while still in the dream. 'Full control' is an advanced skill, not a perquisite. So congratulations, it was a 'lucid experience'.

For myself, my understanding of reality has shifted so far beyond them, I don't identify with the usual terminology anymore. I simply don't view reality in a way in which they work anymore. They're too "physically limiting" for me now.

I have found that experiences in the non-physical (hell, even physical experiences) aren't something you DO, they're something you ARE.
For example, I don't HAVE lucid dreams... instead, I AM lucidly aware.
I recognize that most (or even *ALL*) of the terms people use (dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, etc) don't objectively exist.
To me, they're absolutely and completely useless to convey the appropriate meaning of an experience. Personally. lol

As such, this is the method and mode in which I teach. To open the minds of those who come here to see beyond the labels that they have 'read' about and see past them to experience consciousness AS consciousness and not a neat and tidy box limiting their experiences.
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby wstein » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:21 pm

Xanth wrote:
wstein wrote:FYI: A lucid dream is simply being aware that you are dreaming while still in the dream. 'Full control' is an advanced skill, not a perquisite. So congratulations, it was a 'lucid experience'.

For myself, my understanding of reality has shifted so far beyond them, I don't identify with the usual terminology anymore. I simply don't view reality in a way in which they work anymore. They're too "physically limiting" for me now.

I have found that experiences in the non-physical (hell, even physical experiences) aren't something you DO, they're something you ARE.
For example, I don't HAVE lucid dreams... instead, I AM lucidly aware.
I recognize that most (or even *ALL*) of the terms people use (dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, etc) don't objectively exist.
To me, they're absolutely and completely useless to convey the appropriate meaning of an experience. Personally. lol

As such, this is the method and mode in which I teach. To open the minds of those who come here to see beyond the labels that they have 'read' about and see past them to experience consciousness AS consciousness and not a neat and tidy box limiting their experiences.
Sadly most people are not even 'to' let alone beyond 'doing'.

Just because one is 'beyond' the concepts terminology represents, does not invalidate those concepts nor the terms use to refer to them. For instance 'doing' (which I am working on getting past) is still something actual that is possible even for the advanced. Although the advanced may never wish to engage in 'doing' does not mean it should be ignored. Yes, there are some terminology nit pickers out there that never get past the words and their meanings but I am not talking about them.

Have you found a better way to communicate specific ideas other than with terminology? While I agree that terminology is wholely inadequate especially when it comes to spiritual matters, I still find it useful to communicate base concepts as long at the terms still have specific meanings. Many terms have been rendered useless by those who can't be bothered to know their meanings nor use them appropriately. Some examples are 'love', 'god', 'ego', and 'higher self'. As the things they used to refer to are still about but can no longer be talked clearly about, I feel something has been lost.

---------------------
As to the terms you are dismissing:
lucid: yes, one can be lucid anytime and apply many (all?) of the lucid dreaming skills to any state of consciousness
teach: this is an outdated way to educate by transferring information or technique
identify: separating some aspect of reality by its features and arbitrarily assigning it distinct existence
understanding: a way to represent part of reality in a way it can be processed conceptually
beyond: based on the idea of progress(ion) that some things or states have more of some property than others

As per the above assumed meanings, there are still some 'limiting' factors you may be free of. You may or may not agree, but my point is that I can point at those limits with words in a way you might get what I am saying.

-----------------------------
What mode of teaching are you referring to?
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby Xanth » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:54 pm

I honestly don't really understand what it is you're trying to say, wstein... it kind of sounds like you take issue with something I've said? Please correct me if I'm wrong...
I'm just stating that which I learn, and how I teach people to project.

I thought my post was quite clear and concise on what I was trying to say.
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby wstein » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:13 pm

Xanth wrote:I honestly don't really understand what it is you're trying to say, wstein... it kind of sounds like you take issue with something I've said? Please correct me if I'm wrong...
I'm just stating that which I learn, and how I teach people to project.
Yes,I have issue with more with where what you said than comes from than its content or clarity. I find it overly inclusive and it sounds a bit dismissive to those not where you are. In my experience that leads to an unnecessary lack of clarity. Clarity has been of great value to me in my journey. It's OK, my journey is not another's journey. Some will no doubt benefit from your approach.

I seem to recall we haven't come to compatibility on where we are coming from.

I feel at risk of derailing this interesting thread, not my intent and probably not Xanth's either. To you others reading this, just understand that there are many views and approaches to these sorts of things. Take what ever works for you and ignore the rest.
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby Xanth » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:16 am

Oooooooh, I get it... you think that I'm trying to pass off what I'm saying as *THE* truth. We'll just set this clear so there are no more misunderstandings regarding it.
I think anyone else here, especially the moderators, will tell you that I'm not about sharing THE truth... I'm about sharing *MY* truth.
I only share *MY* truth, because I'm unable to share THE truth... I don't know the truth. Nobody can know the truth. When we make a post, we're posting our opinions.
You are more than welcome to also share your opinions with others here. I do ask one thing though... I ask that those opinions be based upon direct personal experience and not regurgitated, second hand information from a book or other place.

See, for me, I gave up a long time ago prefacing my posts with stuff like, "in my opinion...", because to me it's painfully obvious that what someone says is only their opinion.
It can't be anything OTHER than their opinion.

Although, I've also given up on something else: giving a crap about other people's beliefs. Especially beliefs as subjective as in regards to non-physical explorations.
I enjoy reading them and reading how other people come to their beliefs and opinions... but opinions don't sway me, direct experience does.
More to the point, my own direct experiences trump other people's beliefs/opinions... just as YOUR direct experiences will always (or should) trump MY experiences.

I do ask something of anyone who "takes issue" with anything I or anyone else has to say... and it's more about taking a look at yourself. I do this for myself whenever I "take issue" with something someone says (it doesn't happen much anymore). Ask yourself WHY you take issue with it (the trick is that you MUST be 100% open and honest with yourself), because the reason you state above (clarity) has absolutely nothing to do with it. I'll give you a hint as to the real reason: EGO

How do I know this? Because I used to do the exact same thing just like you are doing now and when I REALLY DUG DEEP WITHIN and was 100% open and honest with myself, the reason was absolutely crystal clear.
It was because what the other person said went against what I believed to be true. Nobody likes to question that which they believe to be true.
When I freed myself from giving a crap about what someone else believed; when I realized that what someone else said was only their opinion; when I accepted that other people are free to believe whatever they want and share whatever they want with others then this battle within myself simply went away and peace within followed. I allow others to simply be as their are... that INCLUDES the beliefs they hold.

This post ended up being a lot longer than I anticipated, but it has to be said... I really don't want anymore of these kinds of discussions happening, because, as you said, it detracts from the original thread.
Just assume that anything anyone says on here IS AN OPINION, and leave it at that. If you get upset, because of something someone says on here, PM myself or a moderator and we'll discuss it and get back to you, but also do as I suggest above and try to figure out the *REAL* root reason for why it made you upset: 99 times out of 100 it's due to ego.
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Re: First "Lucid-Like" experience

Postby wstein » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:36 am

Xanth wrote:Oooooooh, I get it... you think that I'm trying to pass off what I'm saying as *THE* truth. We'll just set this clear so there are no more misunderstandings regarding it.
Xanth wrote: I think anyone else here, especially the moderators, will tell you that I'm not about sharing THE truth... I'm about sharing *MY* truth.

You are more than welcome to also share your opinions with others here. I do ask one thing though... I ask that those opinions be based upon direct personal experience and not regurgitated, second hand information from a book or other place.
I agree and I do speak from my expereince.

Xanth wrote: See, for me, I gave up a long time ago prefacing my posts with stuff like, "in my opinion...", because to me it's painfully obvious that what someone says is only their opinion.
It can't be anything OTHER than their opinion.
Yeah, don't do the 'IMO' thing much unless someone seems volatile. Not clear to most sadly

Xanth wrote: More to the point, my own direct experiences trump other people's beliefs/opinions... just as YOUR direct experiences will always (or should) trump MY experiences.
I do long for some synergy ...

Xanth wrote: I do ask something of anyone who "takes issue" with anything I or anyone else has to say... I'll give you a hint as to the real reason: EGO

Xanth wrote: , but also do as I suggest above and try to figure out the *REAL* root reason for why it made you upset: 99 times out of 100 it's due to ego.
There is a LOT of EGO. I'm the 1%.

Disclaimer: my issue here is about the difficulty of communicating with others, my framing is just too unlike theirs a lot of the time.
Xanth wrote: I really don't want anymore of these kinds of discussions happening, because, as you said, it detracts from the original thread.
Sorry thread readers, felt clearing the air worth the additional distraction.

BACK ON THREAD: the lucid part of me was watching as I was typing in this thread. It was trying to make sure that I was responding to what was written, not my internal stuff. I find this a beneficial use for being 'lucid' (lucid dream style) while being awake.
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