Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby astralzombie » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:51 am

The ‘BIG’ mystery is that anything at all could possibly ‘be’ given that there are no features to the ALL. To have a feature, there must be properties of some kind. Even without knowing how it’s possible, I see these as ‘separations’ of the ALL. Separations allow the ALL to seem not absolutely uniform. There is an obvious paradox as either there is featurelessness or there are features. This is still unresolved and a source of constant visceral spiritual pain for me. On a practical level I accept that there are separations. The rest of what follows assumes that the ALL can remain uniform and yet still have these separations/properties/aspects.
--from wstein

Perhaps you should re-evaluate your theory and see if there is something that you are missing or just overlooking. At some point we have to accept that from our limited perspective as humans and other incarnated beings, it simply is not possible to understand the All/Source/Creator/God completely or even minutely to be frank about it.

This does not imply or suggest that we should not contemplate such things but it shouldn't cause "visceral spiritual pain". This is from a human perspective though and I can only speak from such. Maybe this pain is intellectual because on some level you know that your theory does not accurately explain some things but you just want to hold on to your current view for whatever reason. :)

I am not saying that you aren't correct but that you may need to look at this from a different angle. Your theory is as valid as any other.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Jettins » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:29 am

I agree with Astralzombie on the above.

wstein wrote:Just because a being is 'here' (anywhere) without a local mission does not mean they are selfish. Believe it or not, there are many reasons to have interests 'elsewhere', some of them even more 'important' than helping this particular universe. I know the locals (humans included) won't agree, but there is nothing particularly special or more important about this universe. As such, the interests of multiple universes often outweigh any interests limited to this universe. It surprises me, though it shouldn't, that the old souls who have incarnated in so many places don't take more inclusive view which includes many universes.

However, I have sympathy for your sentiment because I feel the same. The entire reason for my physical life seems to be in preparation for a life in another dimension or universe. I can say this with some confidence because many of my non-physical experiences relate to this theme.

But I am still in this physical dimension so I had to find a way to keep myself from dueling about it. When you said that you weren't human I wondered why you felt inclined to say it that way. After reading you a bit more I understood.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby astralzombie » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:14 pm

I get the feeling that wstein might feel like being human is a sort of lesser experience of the different physical beings that exist.

It's my opinion that there is much to learn from being human so even if you were "forced" to incarnate as one, you should do your best to immerse yourself in the human experience.

It is standard operating procedure that we forget our past lives and incarnations while human so that we may gain the most from this time around. However, since he still has some previous memories and a knowing that he is not human, I think something didn't quite work out right or he has something specific to do. I'm surprised that he hasn't figured out his purpose here yet through his many OOBE. :)

If he does, I hope that he can share the reason with us. :)
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Jettins » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:24 pm

I'm not sure if I understood the first sentence. What did you mean by... different physical beings that exist?
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby astralzombie » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:14 pm

Jettins wrote:I'm not sure if I understood the first sentence. What did you mean by... different physical beings that exist?


I was referring to intelligent "alien" life.

Out of all the different intelligent beings that exist throughout the universe, multi-verse, dimensions or wherever, I get the feeling that being human is a lesser experience according to his posts.

This is not a judgement but an observation, I mean it could very well be that human life is the sorriest of all existence but it's my only point of reference and I love it so.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Taoistguy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:39 pm

I feel that many other universes doesn't really equate with such an importance as that equated with it.
Wether 1 0r 5 or 15 or 50, is not imprtant: It's quality over quantity thyat matters.
Each are as important and equal and so the importance one feels towards one own is in a wy outweighiing the importance of another. The important thing is athat any exist at all!
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Jettins » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:07 pm

astralzombie wrote:I was referring to intelligent "alien" life.

I see what you’re saying now. The "physical" word near the end of the sentence just didn't seem to fit what you were trying to say the first time I read it.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby wstein » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:33 pm

astralzombie wrote: This does not imply or suggest that we should not contemplate such things but it shouldn't cause "visceral spiritual pain". This is from a human perspective though and I can only speak from such. Maybe this pain is intellectual because on some level you know that your theory does not accurately explain some things but you just want to hold on to your current view for whatever reason.
The pain is from being present to unity and separation simultaneously, they 'clash in disharmony'. Focusing/facing one or the other alone does not cause any pain, I seem to be fine with each separately. To the the degree I am perceiving both the more intense the pain. The pain can get intense enough to make me physically fall over.

Merely thinking/processing/contemplating about the situation does not cause any pain. I agree that the current view lacks something as there are obvious unexplained issues. Fundamentally I don't know what is actually causing the pain. I can say that these attempts to 'understand' are a response to what was initially a pain with no obvious source. As with many incarnate beings, an unexplained pain calls for investigation. Usually its a warning often with an associated call for action. Like many know, the source of the pain is not always obvious.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby wstein » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:49 pm

astralzombie wrote: I get the feeling that wstein might feel like being human is a sort of lesser experience of the different physical beings that exist.
Perhaps I am whining about my limited situation?? Possible.

I want to be clear that I don't look 'down' on humans. I am just clear that my nature is not the same as theirs. I don't fit, don't match, don't have the same capabilities, am not interested in the same things. Having familiarity with beings of many scopes and capabilities, I know that none are 'more' or 'less' than what I am. Facing into infinity lets one realize that comparative stances just don't have any basis. In infinity there are an infinite number of kinds of beings with more of a capability and an infinite number of kinds of beings with less of that capability than the others. This is 'true' no matter what being you are.

-------------------
Fundamentally this goes much deeper. Really I don't yearn to be some other kind of being, that won't solve anything. In fact its the very 'problem'. I am aware that 'I' has lived at least several hundred thousand lifetimes in all manner to beings from the very simple (at least one worm that I know of) to one of immense power that accidentally unmade a whole universe as incidentally as a human tripping on a crack in the sidewalk. My guess is that I don't even come close to knowing the scope of it. I have had some interactions with some of my other 'current' incarnations. 'We' have had enough of this incarnation stuff. There doesn't seem to be any purpose, reason, benefit, joy, wonder, or value to it any more. It possible the over-soul in total has some purpose but its not sharing. Sure there are an infinite number of beings that I has not incarnated as. What of it? How many is 'enough'? So its not so much that I don't like being incarnate as a human, its that I don't like incarnating at all. No more, done, thanks but no thanks.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby wstein » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:59 pm

Taoistguy wrote:I feel that many other universes doesn't really equate with such an importance as that equated with it.
Wether 1 0r 5 or 15 or 50, is not imprtant: It's quality over quantity thyat matters.
Each are as important and equal and so the importance one feels towards one own is in a wy outweighiing the importance of another. The important thing is athat any exist at all!
From the truly 'BIG" perspective, all existence is fundamentally the same. Sure there are lots of detail differences but that does not significantly change the nature of it. Each has its own 'qualities' (attributes) which only become 'quality' (to you) only if it is in alignment with who you are.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Jettins » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:03 pm

wstein you should join http://inselfyoga.com/ to ask how to end the cycle of Saṃsāra. It would be fun to see what they say.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Taoistguy » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:16 pm

Often an Understanding can finally be achieved through its simplicity and not its complexity? :)
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby astralzombie » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:13 am

wstein wrote:
astralzombie wrote: I get the feeling that wstein might feel like being human is a sort of lesser experience of the different physical beings that exist.
Perhaps I am whining about my limited situation?? Possible.

I want to be clear that I don't look 'down' on humans. I am just clear that my nature is not the same as theirs. I don't fit, don't match, don't have the same capabilities, am not interested in the same things. Having familiarity with beings of many scopes and capabilities, I know that none are 'more' or 'less' than what I am. Facing into infinity lets one realize that comparative stances just don't have any basis. In infinity there are an infinite number of kinds of beings with more of a capability and an infinite number of kinds of beings with less of that capability than the others. This is 'true' no matter what being you are.

-------------------
Fundamentally this goes much deeper. Really I don't yearn to be some other kind of being, that won't solve anything. In fact its the very 'problem'. I am aware that 'I' has lived at least several hundred thousand lifetimes in all manner to beings from the very simple (at least one worm that I know of) to one of immense power that accidentally unmade a whole universe as incidentally as a human tripping on a crack in the sidewalk. My guess is that I don't even come close to knowing the scope of it. I have had some interactions with some of my other 'current' incarnations. 'We' have had enough of this incarnation stuff. There doesn't seem to be any purpose, reason, benefit, joy, wonder, or value to it any more. It possible the over-soul in total has some purpose but its not sharing. Sure there are an infinite number of beings that I has not incarnated as. What of it? How many is 'enough'? So its not so much that I don't like being incarnate as a human, its that I don't like incarnating at all. No more, done, thanks but no thanks.


I think you may have many more incarnations in your future for the very reason that you are not seeing the point of it. A soul that has seen the point of it would not mind reincarnating again, especially if it means to help someone else evolve. Just my take on it.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby wstein » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:00 am

astralzombie wrote: A soul that has seen the point of it would not mind reincarnating again, especially if it means to help someone else evolve. Just my take on it.
Helping someone else evolve might be a purpose as 'could' a vast multitude of other things. We have already done so many things including helping others grow spiritually. But as 'it' didn't bother to inform the incarnations what else of value there is to 'do', they are unaware of this 'grand scheme'. So 'we' are milling around seeing no further point. The obvious thing left to do is to unite, re-unify and return to oneness.

A quiet revolution is in progress ... the peasants won't work any more until they know why they should.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Taoistguy » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:34 pm

wstein wrote:
astralzombie wrote: A soul that has seen the point of it would not mind reincarnating again, especially if it means to help someone else evolve. Just my take on it.
Helping someone else evolve might be a purpose as 'could' a vast multitude of other things. We have already done so many things including helping others grow spiritually. But as 'it' didn't bother to inform the incarnations what else of value there is to 'do', they are unaware of this 'grand scheme'. So 'we' are milling around seeing no further point. The obvious thing left to do is to unite, re-unify and return to oneness.

A quiet revolution is in progress ... the peasants won't work any more until they know why they should.


Sounds to me as if you are stuck in some kinda ennui? Could be you still have some advanced lessons to learn?
Me and some friends felt the same way but with our 'political' actrivities; We can see the wood for the trees but they can't. Seems like we still had some more work to do.
Have faith and relax. :)
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby wstein » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:52 pm

Taoistguy wrote: Could be you still have some advanced lessons to learn?
Obviously at least one more as I am still here despite my intentions.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Szaxx » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:07 pm

At least one more....
If you were ready to be assimilated into the one, would you really know?
All the reincarnation experiences from this side are so suppressed it becomes a guessing game. The feelings that control general thoughts are perplexing, considering that they control your NP environment indirectly, what feedback could be expected?
A rejection of returning perhaps?
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby wstein » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:16 pm

Szaxx wrote: If you were ready to be assimilated into the one, would you really know?
If fully returned to ‘source’ then no, there would be no one remaining to know.
Szaxx wrote: All the reincarnation experiences from this side are so suppressed it becomes a guessing game. The feelings that control general thoughts are perplexing, considering that they control your NP environment indirectly
Highly suppressed yes, but not everyone is completely ignorant of their other lifetimes.
Szaxx wrote: what feedback could be expected?
I am not sure what you mean by this, feedback to who about what??
Szaxx wrote: A rejection of returning perhaps?
Certainly a possibility. Another more ‘moderate’ result would be to be included on the ‘purpose’ and perhaps the planning now withheld by the over-soul. Though more lifetimes does not seem desirable, perhaps the incarnations would still be willing If they had some reason.

I want to clarify here that ceasing incarnation in no way ends a spiritual being. It can continue in the unmanifest.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby Szaxx » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:33 am

The feedback to the self on that gained due to the purpose of these experiences. In the music industry it's better known as foldback. A personal awareness of your actions in lifes learnings.
It may be the all encompassing enlightenment, that could explain it, a knowing of that needed to know perhaps.
I guess it could be a greater understanding of the wider reality with some extra sensory perception of this learning environment.
Learning will continue after our incarnations here have been fulfilled. I agree with this too.
We travel on roads to get to our destination. Once we arrive, we have other purposes there unrelated to travelling.
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Re: Degrees of Separation: a cosmology

Postby wstein » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:55 am

Szaxx wrote:The feedback to the self on that gained due to the purpose of these experiences. In the music industry it's better known as foldback. A personal awareness of your actions in lifes learnings.
It may be the all encompassing enlightenment, that could explain it, a knowing of that needed to know perhaps.
I guess it could be a greater understanding of the wider reality with some extra sensory perception of this learning environment.
Learning will continue after our incarnations here have been fulfilled. I agree with this too.
We travel on roads to get to our destination. Once we arrive, we have other purposes there unrelated to travelling.
I’m still not sure I understand the question but I will try to answer it. If that was not the ‘right’ question, try to ask in another way.

The over-soul gains possibilities (it’s version of growth) through intentional or unintentional change that can occur during an incarnation’s experience. With expanded possibilities comes opportunities for new types of incarnations either in new situations or in old situations with different circumstances and abilities. ‘Pre-existing’ incarnations often won’t get any benefit from this as they already have unfulfilled purpose. There is no need for the over-soul to change existing incarnations when it can just make more. New incarnations get the benefit of those that came ‘before’ them (and incarnations that can interact with these newcomers). Some incarnations have the capability to interact with the over-soul or its memories and thus gain benefit during a lifetime.

I have my doubts that the over-soul has any overall purpose, destination, or goal. Best I can tell, it’s just checking out interesting possibilities to see what happens.

Perhaps enlightenment is realizing that you are made of the very same stuff as the over-soul. As such you are equal to it. From then you have the option of choosing your own ‘purpose’.
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