Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

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Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Xanth » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:51 pm

Do you figure there's a direct connection between things like Consciousness... Astral Projection... and Quantum Physics?

Where would the connection lie?
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Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby wstein » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:15 am

Pretty much no connection.

The only link I see is that neither Astral Projection nor Quantum Physics would be undertaken without consciousness.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby CFTraveler » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:03 pm

I think one of the possible Quantum Physics theories, of many, if true, could describe something that happens during an OBE. But, if it's a valid theory (whichever interpretation floats your boat) would describe all of reality, not just one of many QP interpretations.
Regarding consciousness, it's hard to connect it to anything at all, because everybody doesn't even have the same concept of what consciousness really is. I know that at least I don't have a clear definition of consciousness, and I often use different definitions of it depending on what I'm talking about.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Szaxx » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:35 pm

Broadly speaking from the days of quark strangeness and charm, QP has progressed. It's still in its infancy and gets so little general acceptance from the matetialists.
The anomalous effects produced on spin rotation of paralell bi-directional particle beams at least have a possible answer.
The double slit experiment too has it's inherent strangeness. Particles or waves, time dilation and add a bit of our conciousness of observation it all gets too much to comprehend.
However else could you explain our dual awareness especially when the body sleeps and the mind is witnessing something else far from it?
It may be linked, if anyone can find a link thats at least mathematically provable we will be on the right track.
To where is another question.
There's so much our materialistic approach has missed, given time it may come clear.
You can't count to ten if you deny number seven exists.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Majic » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:16 pm

Does anyone have an in depth understanding of the state of quantum physics as It appears that everyone has an opinion based on one small part they may have read or seen in the media and some backed by some belief they have that somehow turns into fact. (LOL - this board and its member excluded)

I find the topic very interesting and am up to lecture 8 on basic physics by R Feynman and will in time progress from these. Any recommendations are welcome as I want to add to my understanding in this area.

I listened to one audio book on quantum entanglement and if it was literal then we have interactions that are instant and defy the speed of light as a maximum and so the basis for some dramatic change in views and I am sure there are a lot more of these sorts of discoveries occurring all the time. I dont think we are close to knowing what we dont know at the present time.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby astralzombie » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:26 am

Majic, I am one of those that you have described. I only know what makes the news and that isn't much. I know quite a bit about Max Planck (the father of QP)and a few other scientists that were in the field though. Planck is credited with saying that QP will be the field that discovers God but no one is sure how he meant that to be taken.

Did he mean that we would finally understand how a wonderfully complex universe could come about by chance or would we finally find the evidence that proves intelligent design?
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Sinera » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:19 am

astralzombie wrote:I know quite a bit about Max Planck (the father of QP)and a few other scientists that were in the field though. Planck is credited with saying that QP will be the field that discovers God but no one is sure how he meant that to be taken

Planck was an ingenious scientist and a true mystic all at once. Rare to find back then, but some are of course to be found nowadays. I made this thread here a while ago to honour this great man. From Wikiquote:
I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
- Max Planck

As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.
- Max Planck

Mind as Matrix of all Matter. Even the great Mr. Einstein didn't get it back then. Planck did!
If you ask me .... Priceless! :ugeek:
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby astralzombie » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:11 pm

Based on your second quote Sinera, I would say that he clearly meant that we would find the evidence of intelligent design.

Perhaps I might have exaggerated (a little, miniscule amount) when I said that I knew a lot about such men. I should have said that I have read a lot about them. What I remember, what I have read, and what I know are all very different things.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Majic » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:59 pm

Majic, I am one of those that you have described


Maybe, maybe not. I am also one in part, I only know what I read and what I can put together in my mind an am crazy about getting in new ideas and information so always hunting up abstract and mainstream stuff to read. its when you get a situation that I read about where a group of people were discussing dreams and how they might be related to quantum physics in a group meeting and one gentleman was given a hard time about his ideas and his lack of understanding - he was the quantum physicist and at the cutting edge at the time.

Getting hung because it suits you belief is what bothers me and that's all, I love the minds that dig deep in any field and the better I understand them the more chance I have to get there as well in my own way.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby CFTraveler » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:30 am

I'm going to take a skeptical stance here:
However else could you explain our dual awareness especially when the body sleeps and the mind is witnessing something else far from it?
By suggesting that we are functioning with different parts of the brain simultaneously. As modern mammals, we have binary brains.
Now I don't necessarily believe this, but it is one way to explain it without resorting to quantum effects, although I like the quantum effects explanation better.

The popular explanations for QM are rejected by materialists because they do not explain what is observed in the field, any better than regular old physics. It's like, you have x observed phenomenon. You invent a way to explain it. (Newtonian physics). Everything goes well, until you get to the very small sizes. Now you have a bunch of obervations to explain. So you invent a new type of physics to explain it. You apply it. it seems to explain some of it, not all. So now you invent matemathics to explain it. You're closer, but it still doesn't quite do it. You come up with four or five types of explanations to explain it. By now no one understands most of these explanations from the point of view of mathematics. It still doesn't explain everything. A lot, but there's a lot of error. Then someone realizes that some of the theories are similar to old philosophy and creation mythology. That must mean it's right. Now you have the 'believers' and the 'unbelievers.' Now no one can question the errors in math, so they try to invent another type of math to explain it.
And that's what we have.
I still like it better than Newtonian physics, but not for the right reasons.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Jettins » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:31 pm

Good thread, interesting reads.

At the end of the day what you'll get is what you make out to be, more or less.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Xanth » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:24 pm

I remember listening to one of the TMI Explorer tapes of Tom Campbell. He was talking to another entity and he mentioned something about weather and not having to worry about our body temperatures. He said something to the effect of if you are just able to ignore the weather, then it doesn't effect you.

Now, I for one have completely experienced this many times... on purpose and accidentally. I remember times I'd be so cold in the winter when I was walking to school, then when I distracted my mind, my extremities would warm up. Or perceive to be warmer. By ignoring the cold, and not process it, it had no effect upon me.

Is this not the concept of Quantum Physics in action? When something isn't observed, it doesn't exists without our reality? By not thinking about or allowing the perception of weather to enter my mind... I've, in essence, turned off the weather from effecting me.

Just something to consider. :) I think Tom really had something there.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby wstein » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:21 pm

Xanth wrote: Now, I for one have completely experienced this many times... on purpose and accidentally. I remember times I'd be so cold in the winter when I was walking to school, then when I distracted my mind, my extremities would warm up. Or perceive to be warmer. By ignoring the cold, and not process it, it had no effect upon me.
There is a big difference between being able to ignore weather and feeling like you are ignoring the weather. In the short term there may seem to be little difference from an experience point of view. However, simply feeling like the weather has no effect only works until your body fails.

I had a girlfriend who wore open shoes in the winter (as a child). She didn't like her feet being enclosed and didn't mind cold feet, so never switched from summer shoes to winter ones even though there was snow on the ground. That all stopped one day after her parents took her to the doctor to look at some 'bruises' on her feet. The diagnosis was frost bite.

People who have a genetic condition so they can't sense what the environment is doing to their body are at serious health risk even in very ordinary circumstances.

The perception of reality is not reality. I am not discounting 'mind over matter'. Nor ignoring something for a purpose. I am saying that changing ones perception does not change the thing itself, only your experience of it.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Jettins » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:28 am

wstein wrote:I am saying that changing ones perception does not change the thing itself, only your experience of it.

My view is that all is energy, even the consciousness and the objects (body), in which it exists. The same energy will change according to its function. This means that if the same energy can change, the object of experience “or the thing itself” may change as well. This would render your statement valid on the grounds that the energy in the physical dimension has a very stable function or purpose which makes it likely predictable, but it would render you statement invalid if I include the physically undetectable intangible energy of the universe and consciousness and its influence which makes it unpredictable. Therefore putting it together becomes "apparent predictability" or maybe "relative predictability" in the physical as we are not capable of perceiving the absolute. All we need is to learn a bit of cosmology and quantum physics or more specifically about the hypothetical form of energy called dark energy and quantum superposition to open our mind to the possibility that we may have missed something - that a very likely scenario will not always be absolute, even in the apparent predictability of the physical. To know however, I would recommend extensive personal experimentation in non-physical dimensions with an objective mindset.

Imagine whatever “energy” you wish as a unit container or human being. Inside the container will be the different phases of the same energy. There will also be containers within other containers. Inside the container will be good-bad, tangible-intangible energy. What changes is not the energy, but its manifesting form (perceptual state) according to its function as it gyrates between physical and elsewhere (non-local), in other words quantum entanglement in the psyche of humanity, synchronicity. To further clarify this I like to simplify it as function and purpose being the forces of change, the forces that bring awarenesses together to minimize randomness, evolution. In other words the “spooky action at a distance” a comment by Albert Einstein when he realized entangled particles seemed to be connected in non-local ways. Purpose sounds like intelligent design, and function sounds like the materialistic view. Is it a coincidence that it does? Probably not. What can I say? I just can’t seem to see things dualistically anymore not after many objectively aware physical and non-physical experiences. I think this link that bridges inner and outer, particles and consciousness, objective and subjective is OK, for now. More on what I mean regarding function and purpose can be found in the following post: why-you-need-to-control-your-thoughts-t215.html#p1763

wstein wrote:The perception of reality is not reality. I am saying that changing ones perception does not change the thing itself, only your experience of it.

To be clear, in the physical it can be expected to be, as it is likely outcome. This becomes plain obvious when a person has cancer and they cannot wish it away for example. However, in the non-physical dimensions “the thing itself”, “the cancer”, or the energy in object form may shift or phase in accordance to its function and purpose. Why? Because my findings strongly suggest the non-physical dimensions in general aren't what is implied by the word “dimension”. They are actually perceptual states of being.
Last edited by Jettins on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby astralzombie » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:06 pm

wstein, Have you ever written about any of your theories in a detailed manner, I would love to go over them. Not to critique them but just as a comparison to my own.

I have been forming quite a few of my own and now that I have finally started to read the works of some of the greats, I am interested in seeing how they fit with my own or may even strengthen my own or I may see the need to abandon some altogether.

Just a thought as I know that many of us don't like to go into great detail about all this.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Xanth » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:11 pm

wstein wrote:
Xanth wrote: Now, I for one have completely experienced this many times... on purpose and accidentally. I remember times I'd be so cold in the winter when I was walking to school, then when I distracted my mind, my extremities would warm up. Or perceive to be warmer. By ignoring the cold, and not process it, it had no effect upon me.
There is a big difference between being able to ignore weather and feeling like you are ignoring the weather. In the short term there may seem to be little difference from an experience point of view. However, simply feeling like the weather has no effect only works until your body fails.

I had a girlfriend who wore open shoes in the winter (as a child). She didn't like her feet being enclosed and didn't mind cold feet, so never switched from summer shoes to winter ones even though there was snow on the ground. That all stopped one day after her parents took her to the doctor to look at some 'bruises' on her feet. The diagnosis was frost bite.

People who have a genetic condition so they can't sense what the environment is doing to their body are at serious health risk even in very ordinary circumstances.

What I speak about is different. It's not simply ignoring the weather, whether by force or genetics... your girlfriend probably fully felt the cold, but simply ignored it and the pain that went with it.
I'm speaking past ignoring... not even registering it. It does work, as I said, I've lived it. What I'm talking about is the weather ceasing to completely exist for you. That's the best way I can describe what I experienced at least.

The perception of reality is not reality. I am not discounting 'mind over matter'. Nor ignoring something for a purpose. I am saying that changing ones perception does not change the thing itself, only your experience of it.

See, now, to me there is no "mind over matter", because to me matter simply doesn't objectively exist. None of this does. It's all consciousness.
I'd actually say perception of reality IS reality... for the experiencer, because that is the only reality that exists. The reality of the experiencer.
I've personally lived the statement: "Change you perception and you change your reality".

Could we be talking semantics here? Quite possibly. I'm happy to drill down into this to find our commonalities! :)
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Xanth » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:13 pm

Jettins wrote:To be clear, in the physical it can be expected to be, as it is likely outcome. This becomes plain obvious when a person has cancer and they cannot wish it away for example. However, in the non-physical dimensions “the thing itself”, “the cancer”, or the energy in object form may shift or phase in accordance to its function and purpose. Why? Because my findings strongly suggest the non-physical dimensions in general aren't what is implied by the word “dimension”. They are actually perceptual states of being.

Actually, it's funny you mention that...
I watched a documentary last night called "The Secret"... it's all about using the Law of Attraction to benefit yourself.
Well, anyway... wishing away cancer is pretty much exactly what someone did. :)

It's quite fascinating.

In the end, I've learned to never say never regarding anything to do with consciousness.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby Jettins » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:30 pm

Good conclusion Xanth.
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby wstein » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:26 pm

Jettins wrote:
wstein wrote:I am saying that changing ones perception does not change the thing itself, only your experience of it.

My view is that all is energy, even the consciousness and the objects (body), in which it exists. The same energy will change according to its function. This means that if the same energy can change, the object of experience “or the thing itself” may change as well.

To know however, I would recommend extensive personal experimentation in non-physical dimensions with an objective mindset.

wstein wrote:The perception of reality is not reality. I am saying that changing ones perception does not change the thing itself, only your experience of it.
To be clear, in the physical it can be expected to be, as it is likely outcome. This becomes plain obvious when a person has cancer and they cannot wish it away for example. However, in the non-physical dimensions “the thing itself”, “the cancer”, or the energy in object form may shift or phase in accordance to its function and purpose. Why? Because my findings strongly suggest the non-physical dimensions in general aren't what is implied by the word “dimension”. They are actually perceptual states of being.
What you speak about seems fairly accurate in terms of the material universe or as you say “in the physical”.

I view myself as a spiritual being. The spirit part is not from “material” reality nor even manifest reality. As such to me it’s not ‘all’ energy.

I have done extensive exploration of the greater reality. I have been many ‘places’ where ‘energy’ is either non-existent or just a concept/possibility. These experiences suggest to me that energy is a ‘local’ phenomena to a small part of greater reality.

A ‘likely outcome’ is a possibility, not a reality. It’s not energy, it’s not anything actualized yet (if ever).

Just because most people can’t un-cancer themselves does not shed any light on this topic for me. Humans are very limited beings with quite limited capabilities for the most part. There are many things they might be able to do in theory, but almost no one comes close to being able to do them all. The spirits that reside in many are more capable but still limited.

“dimension” is one of those over used words that refer to many very different things, no point in fretting over that
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Re: Astral Projection and Quantum Physics

Postby wstein » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:31 pm

astralzombie wrote:wstein, Have you ever written about any of your theories in a detailed manner
Hopefully this will be revealed as I address topics. I have spent effort in the past typing up some of my views but it rarely gets much response. Consequently I don’t bother to spell it all out any more. Now I wait until I sense that someone might actually be interested.

Best way for me is for you to either ask specific questions (in separate thread) or to start a thread with your own view and ask for alternative views.

I almost always respond to sincere questions unless there is a strong reason not to.
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